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SSD will fail at 40k power-on hours (2021)

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Re: SSD will fail at 40k power-on hours (2021)

#151
post #134
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not two SSDs, four : two in the main server, and two in the backup server.

Yowch. The old "stagger your drive replacements, stagger your batches" thing might not be quite as outdated as we'd like to think...

I had no idea anyone thought this was outdated. We certainly never stopped doing it. I think it is a timeless failsafe.

Re: SSD will fail at 40k power-on hours (2021)

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what always worries me about our home server. It's running ZFS with multiple redundant drives but the supplier refused (when I explicitly asked) to supply it with disks known to be from different batches claiming that the odds of multiple failures close together were negligible. Obviously we have backups as well but the time and cost to restore a full server from online backups can be significant.

Within an earlier thread "Tell HN: HN Moved from M5 to AWS", there's an excellent comment by loxias about risk diversification across multiple factors. Well worth reading: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32031655 I've increasingly come to view systems operations / SRE as a risk management exercise, where the goal is to reduce the odds of a catastrophic failure. Total system outage is one level, unrecoverable tot…

> I've increasingly come to view systems operations / SRE as a risk management exercise, where the goal is to reduce the odds of a catastrophic failure.

s/reduce/find an appropriate level for/

It's a common misconception that risk management and risk reduction are synonyms. Risk management is about finding the right level of risk given external factors. Sometimes that means maintaining the current level of risk or even increasing it in favour of other properties.

Re: SSD will fail at 40k power-on hours (2021)

#154
Here's how to check the power on hours on a Mac:

I didn't have `smartctl` installed on my Mac, so here's how to install it via `brew`:

    brew install smartmontools 
My SSD is `disk0` (check `Disk Utility.app`).

Running `smartctl` for my `disk0`:

    sudo smartctl -a /dev/disk0 | grep -e "Power On Hours"
    Power On Hours:                     6,334
So I have only ~15% of those 40k hours used (6,334/40,000).

Re: SSD will fail at 40k power-on hours (2021)

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking on mouser and digikey it doesn't seem like flash chips, even into very fairly high density on a single chip[eg. 1], are all that difficult to get and get info on, though they all have very high minimum volume orders. So if a person wanted to try to do this on their own they'd probably be best off finding like 50 friends to go in on the order with them. [1] https://www.mouser.ca/datasheet/2/671/micron_technolo…

The flash you linked to the datasheet for is over a decade old. Any SSD built from it would fall short of adequate by an order of magnitude in every important metric. The per-die capacity of typical current-generation NAND flash is 16x larger, the interface speeds are 8x higher, erase blocks are 24x larger, program latency can be 5-10x higher. And most importantly, all mainstream SSDs now use flash that stores three…

A couple things:

- I just picked one at random. I'm sure the bleeding edge is harder to get and datasheets are harder to get, but I wasn't trying to find the newest or best.

- the specific subthread here is about the diy-ishness of ssds vs. spinning rust, where the difficulties are of a fundamentally different kind. I feel like it goes without saying that a home built ssd is not going to perform to the level of mass production devices, the question was just can you.

Re: SSD will fail at 40k power-on hours (2021)

#156
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for standing up to that unpleasantness. I know you aren't really supposed to feed into that, but it's refreshing to see pushback.

Quoted post unavailable.

Barry I appreciate that you recognize my good faith efforts. But I want to highlight that queer and gender nonconforming people are regularly marginalized and othered in this country and around the world. It is genuinely tiring to them to be dismissed regularly in their daily life and then to encounter people online who want to play this up as some culture war with two legitimate sides. I personally would not label you an "unbeliever". As I have said, these people just want to exist and have people like you deal with that without getting upset.

Some people like me have a little extra energy to sit down and explain it, but you cannot regularly expect marginalized people who have to deal with so much day to day to then spend energy educating you on the facts of the lives of queer and gender nonconforming people. They are far, far too tired from everything else to spend that energy educating you.

But I have given you a choice. A couple of videos from a respectful white southern man who I wholeheartedly endorse for his explanations. I watch his videos every day and to be honest I so far think he always has great takes.

So I have given you an opportunity to learn another perspective, and I encourage you to check it out. But if you don't, and you continue to act as the victim of a culture war that does not actually harm you in any way, then I promise you you will continue to be downvoted and kicked out of any space with open minded people.

I genuinely wish you the best. But I do not endorse this notion of dogma and unbelievers. This is about common decency and respect. This is about the lives of real people I respectfully think you haven't yet had the opportunity to understand. But consider checking out those video links. It would be an act of good faith to help your fellow people who just want to exist in peace.

Re: SSD will fail at 40k power-on hours (2021)

#157
They should have used a Free BIOS Language in their hardware like Open Firmware FORTH from the OpenBIOS project, to go with the Bias Free Language in their documentation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenBIOS

>OpenBIOS is a project aiming to provide free and open source implementations of Open Firmware. It is also the name of such an implementation.

>Most of the implementations provided by OpenBIOS rely on additional lower-level firmware for hardware initialization, such as coreboot or Das U-Boot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Firmware

>Open Firmware is a standard defining the interfaces of a computer firmware system, formerly endorsed by the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE). It originated at Sun Microsystems, where it was known as OpenBoot, and has been used by vendors including Sun, Apple, IBM and ARM. Open Firmware allows the system to load platform-independent drivers directly from a PCI device, improving compatibility.

Re: SSD will fail at 40k power-on hours (2021)

#158
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a space that is inclusive of queer folks. If someone can’t handle that, then yeah, they probably aren’t mature enough to safely interact with those people. Every space needs to have some rules in the event that someone gets nasty. Someone who gets upset when they encounter a non-binary person is probably going to make those people feel unwelcome. So you can either protect the vulnerable people or you can allow t…

Thanks for standing up to that unpleasantness. I know you aren't really supposed to feed into that, but it's refreshing to see pushback.

Thanks for recognizing it. I have enough privilege that I am insulated from this kind of thing, so I have the energy to be patient. And it helps me develop my rhetorical skills. Cheers.

Re: SSD will fail at 40k power-on hours (2021)

#159
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We (as an industry) went through this bad batch madness with the IBM DeskStar 75GXP hard drives, which were affectionately referred to as "IBM Deathstar"[1]. It's rare, but it's not _that_ rare. You have to make the effort to understand why it failed. I had a situation where I deployed Toshiba SLC SSDs (that were purchased over the course of several months) and a piece of software that synchronized to disk frequently…

Surprisingly few HN submissions under either term: IBM Deskstar: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... IBM Deathstar: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Back then people still used Slashdot:

Wondering if it's real... https://m.slashdot.org/story/20680

Years later, it's a widespread phenomenon: https://m.slashdot.org/story/43312

It was affectionately called the "click of death".

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