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As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

economist.com

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Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#441

Post by strangegecko »

wizofaus wrote: post #93
mathverse wrote: post #57

I am really annoyed at how we (EU) and the US treat chinese companies and citizens. We (europeans and americans) cant do really anything in China, we have essentially no rights and cant really conduct business. Unlike chinese who are pretty much granted all of that when they want to immigrate or conduct business in EU/US.

That arrangement seems to be almost entirely to the benefit of the EU/US, as there's little incentive for bright/ motivated Europeans or Americans to move to China, vs significant incentive in the opposite direction.

His point isn't mainly about individuals looking for jobs. It's about the economic environment for doing business in a country. You're basically forced to hand over your IP if you want to operate in China, among many other problems.

And btw, the job market for very qualified people in China arguably at least rivals the one in Europe, i.e. you can get better salaries in China than in large parts of Europe.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#442

Post by josephcsible »

Schroedingersat wrote: post #435
another_story wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't care about the US in this instance, but how many of those bases are wanted by the countries they are in? In most cases it seems US citizens are subsidizing the defense of many other countries.

Define wanted? In Australia's case they're 'wanted' by the government insofar as the PM that tried to get rid of them was unlawfully ejected from parliament. Tye populace are at best indifferent, and this is after decades of pro US propaganda. Most of these 'wanted' bases are wanted in the same way the subjects of any other protection racket want their opressor.

In a protection racket, isn't the victim paying the oppressor money for "protection"? But when the US maintains foreign military bases, isn't the US footing the bill?

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#443

Post by jatins »

novok wrote: post #17
tonymet wrote: post #5

they mention data harvesting and influencing public relations as risks, and both are worrisome . another more subtle but pernicious concern is the trivialization of entertainment (which started from a low bar ) tiktok is addictive and much of the content is low bar , slapstick and sexually suggestive thirst traps . there may be a good share of high quality content , but we all know time spent is on garbage. our grand…

Imo tiktok is a bit of a mirror. Its a thirst trap for you. For the short time i used it, it quickly started centering around cute/funny pets and science explainer videos. I also doubt it would show thirst traps to the typical straight female user too too.

"Sir the algorithm is correct. It just told me that you are a pervert and I am wholesome."

We truly are living in a computer's world where what AI thinks of us is increasing "the truth". Who has gotten time for nuance.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#444

Post by schrectacular »

madeofpalk wrote: post #216
mkl95 wrote: post #212

TikTok is the most successful espionage operation of the 21st century so far, and it is based on a simple idea - people will happily give away their data and privacy if you consistently entertain them. In my opinion the application should be shut down as soon as possible, but there are many lessons to learn from it. And most of them have little to do with technology.

As a non-US, non-Chinese citizen, is there something that makes TikTok espionage and Facebook not? Or is it just "china scary"?

There is not. And that's why Facebook was banned in China just as uptake was going exponential.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#445

Post by paulryanrogers »

sudosysgen wrote: post #425
throwaway_4ever wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wild. GP is correct. That poll is from 2013. In the 10 years since, which country has been "The Greatest Threat to World Peace?" It's Russia. Let's see how many got that right... Only Poland. History has actually shown how little popular opinion is accurate on this. Meanwhile, there's a swarm of sibling comments in opposition to GP? Do better HN.

The US and it's cronies have invaded more countries than Russia has since 2013. Not to excuse Russia, they'd be worse also if they could, but it's far from having been disproven - Libya is in a worse state right now than Ukraine thanks to the France, the UK, and the US (Libya in 2014, Syria continued after, then there was the sabre rattling in Iran, etc...). And of course Afghanistan, and the saga with Iraq where the…

> Since 2013 US-backed wars have indeed led to more deaths and have broken the peace in more numerous countries with a higher population than Russia.

Can you link to some sources here? I'm especially curious to see who initiated many of these conflicts. Because once in a while the US tries to back existing movements toward more democratic governance.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#446

Post by Schroedingersat »

bko wrote: post #297
Miner49er wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the opposite. I would much rather have the CCP have my data then a US based company like FB. Unless I travel to China, what are the CCP going to do to the average American with their data? Whereas, in the US, the data could be used in the future to prosecute me for my political views or whatever with law changes.

The CCP could be actively trying to get you hate your neighbor and spread disinformation. That could be a byproduct of either group, but it is more likely to be an explicit goal of CCP. Here's a gem from the WHO in January 2020. This was almost certainly known to be a lie to the CCP based on their actions at the time > Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of hum…

Yes, private companies like blackwater, shell, bp, dutch east india, coca cola, nestle, amazon, or facebook never participate in fascist propaganda campaigns or organize coups, hire mercenaries to kill unionizing (or just competing) workers, murder, or steal. And facebook didn't promote lies and propaganda during the pandemic at all /s

The CCP is at least very indirectly accountable to their own people and holds their country's long term interests in mind even if they do not care about the people and hold the usual abhorrent views of authoritarians towards minorities. This is extremely evil, but pales in comparison to an unaccountable corporate entity with what little human oversight it has steered by a combination of narcissists, neofuedalists and literal apocalypse cultist theocrats.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#447

Post by prawn »

colinsane wrote: post #279
mkl95 wrote: post #212

TikTok is the most successful espionage operation of the 21st century so far, and it is based on a simple idea - people will happily give away their data and privacy if you consistently entertain them. In my opinion the application should be shut down as soon as possible, but there are many lessons to learn from it. And most of them have little to do with technology.

> it is based on a simple idea - people will happily give away their data and privacy if you consistently entertain them. there’s the individual-level view, and the state-level view. i, as an individual, don’t really care if China has my location data or shopping data. what are they going to do with it? they can exert soft power over me: propaganda; distort my worldview a bit. meanwhile, if my own government has acce…

I don't use TikTok, but I assume there's also a concern over foreign influence of a nation's voters? Whether you use TikTok or not, that'd be a potential concern. Entire countries could be subtly influenced by supposed algorithms. A finger on the scales or whatever they call it.

I've long wondered if we might (past or future) see a social media company be successful mostly because, in their infancy, they were indirectly funded by intelligence services in exchange for data access. However, I assume as operations scale, it gets harder for that sort of link to stay secret.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#448

Post by lenkite »

Calvin02 wrote: post #223
madeofpalk wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-US, non-Chinese citizen, is there something that makes TikTok espionage and Facebook not? Or is it just "china scary"?

Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. It is surprisingly that simple. While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still largely law abiding. China, however, is not. Additionally, under Xi, it has become more authoritarian and more willing to undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII. I don’t know why anyone would be…

> Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world.

For many parts of the world, the USA is the biggest threat and tyrant in the world causing significant pain, loss and helplessness for hundreds of millions. Usually followed by deep hatred. I know folks who have lost their entire family to the USA. Unlike Ukraine, US acts of civilian violence rarely make the news or if they do, they are glossed over.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#449

Post by alex_smart »

mkl95 wrote: post #212

TikTok is the most successful espionage operation of the 21st century so far, and it is based on a simple idea - people will happily give away their data and privacy if you consistently entertain them. In my opinion the application should be shut down as soon as possible, but there are many lessons to learn from it. And most of them have little to do with technology.

>TikTok is the most successful espionage operation of the 21st century so far

More than FB and Google?

Press X to doubt.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#450

Post by noisy_boy »

fabianhjr wrote: post #238
Calvin02 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. It is surprisingly that simple. While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still largely law abiding. China, however, is not. Additionally, under Xi, it has become more authoritarian and more willing to undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII. I don’t know why anyone would be…

I am from latin america and at least neither China nor Russia have participated in coup d'etat to install a military junta to then torture and massacre anyone slightly left of the US "Democratic" Party. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2khAmMTAjI

China has learned from US policies and has instead opted for more insidious and less "noisy" approaches like hard to repay soft-loans, mass buying of agricultural lands, starting vice businesses like casinos etc which also result in societal changes once the businesses started by Chinese start bringing a sizable influx of Chinese to work in them. See northwest Laos for a direct example (this is not an armchair comment - I have relations there and have seen the changes firsthand over the decade during numerous visits).
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