Totally leaving FB for Tik Tok after seeing all these stupid articles.
As TikTok grows, so does suspicion
291–300 of 653 posts
Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion
#292Earlier quoted context omitted.
> While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still a largely law abiding. Perhaps on an internal level. But for those of us in third countries what matters is how they act outside their borders, and the US is doing considerably more dronestriking of their political enemies than China is. (And even if you just look at domestic aspects, the relevant area is one of the exceptions. The NSA seems…
you conveniently left Russia out of your “acting outside of their borders” discussion… In case you haven’t noticed they started a bloody war in Ukraine this year.
WTF does Russia have to do with TikTok?
Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion
#293Earlier quoted context omitted.
You would be surprised if you polled non-US, non-China citizens about what country is the biggest geopolitical threat to the world. Wait, I don't even need to talk in conditionals. I Googled it and apparently it has indeed been done several times, and the results are what I expected. https://brilliantmaps.com/threat-to-peace/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/us-threat-demo...
okay, go poll Ukrainians, Poles, Czechs, ...
Yeah, because polling your closest friends is the best way to get an unbiased opinion.
By the way, those are countries near another warmonging superpower... What if you poll South America?
Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion
#294Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a non-US, non-Chinese citizen, is there something that makes TikTok espionage and Facebook not? Or is it just "china scary"?
TikTok's format is more successful at micro targeting and influencing people than Facebook. Other future social media networks will probably work in a similar way and be just as concerning. YouTube is another one that's very good at influencing people. I wonder if video is unsafe at any speed, so to speak... A spooky example of TikTok-the-emergent-system's ability to influence people at scale. This one gave me pause.…
Influencing sure, but espionage ? From what I can tell, people mostly consume content there in a similar fashion to YouTube, i.e. you don't really add your real-life friends and you don't post your day-to-day stuff unless you are already a celebrity
Contrary to facebook where people would literally "Follow" their political parties, workplaces, friend groups from school/work/gym/life, etc.
Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion
#295TikTok is the most successful espionage operation of the 21st century so far, and it is based on a simple idea - people will happily give away their data and privacy if you consistently entertain them. In my opinion the application should be shut down as soon as possible, but there are many lessons to learn from it. And most of them have little to do with technology.
> it is based on a simple idea - people will happily give away their data and privacy if you consistently entertain them. there’s the individual-level view, and the state-level view. i, as an individual, don’t really care if China has my location data or shopping data. what are they going to do with it? they can exert soft power over me: propaganda; distort my worldview a bit. meanwhile, if my own government has acce…
What if US government makes a (secret) deal with China to get data from them? It might seem unlikely today, but politics can change any time. Data markets can be fairly efficient. Once someone has your data, they can always (re)sell it to the highest bidder.
Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion
#296Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a non-US, non-Chinese citizen, is there something that makes TikTok espionage and Facebook not? Or is it just "china scary"?
It is because China is the enemy. When it's Facebook or Google strangely it's never an issue. Moral is always a facade for international economic war. And some people fall for it.
I agree about the contradictions and hypocrisy but the answer can be much more pragmatic:
> As a non-US, non-Chinese citizen, is there something that makes TikTok espionage and Facebook not? Or is it just "china scary"?
There's problems with US big tech and TikTok but the case against TikTok is easier to push through.
There's nothing wrong with patching the first of many holes in your roof and starting with the one easiest to get to.
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My primary emotional and ethical driver is to point out my own government (the US) not living up to its marketing material, but it doesn't mean I wouldn't support eliminating a vector for another (openly autocratic) government to meddle with my country as well.
Edit: distinguish my reply to prior comment from my ramblings about my reply.
Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion
#297Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think there's a difference between a private company having my data and an adversarial government. The company has a clear motive, profit. They're lawful neutral. An adversarial government may be chaotic evil. I don't know why this isn't obvious. Wasn't everyone freaking out just a few years ago when Russian government was manipulating people with political groups on Facebook? And that's even with Facebook's earnes…
I'm the opposite. I would much rather have the CCP have my data then a US based company like FB. Unless I travel to China, what are the CCP going to do to the average American with their data? Whereas, in the US, the data could be used in the future to prosecute me for my political views or whatever with law changes.
The CCP could be actively trying to get you hate your neighbor and spread disinformation. That could be a byproduct of either group, but it is more likely to be an explicit goal of CCP. Here's a gem from the WHO in January 2020. This was almost certainly known to be a lie to the CCP based on their actions at the time
> Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China.
Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion
#298TikTok is the most successful espionage operation of the 21st century so far, and it is based on a simple idea - people will happily give away their data and privacy if you consistently entertain them. In my opinion the application should be shut down as soon as possible, but there are many lessons to learn from it. And most of them have little to do with technology.
> it is based on a simple idea - people will happily give away their data and privacy if you consistently entertain them. there’s the individual-level view, and the state-level view. i, as an individual, don’t really care if China has my location data or shopping data. what are they going to do with it? they can exert soft power over me: propaganda; distort my worldview a bit. meanwhile, if my own government has acce…
> meanwhile, if my own government has access to this same data, i suffer direct consequences. my odds of getting arrested for nonviolent crime (e.g. political activism; buying drugs online) go way up when my govt surveils me
It seems like an error to assume these two forms of surveillance are mutually exclusive.
At any of
> the Starbucks you’re using for free wifi
> the ISP your endpoint is using for internet access
> the data centers in which Tiktok is serving you data
> the device on which you didn’t write the OS or any background programs written on it
Presumably anyone with the power and inclination to listen or influence the design of the above can intercept any non-encrypted or not-yet-encrypted data you’re exchanging (and if they’re a state actor, probably get access to whatever information they’d need to perform decryption) - including your government.
Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion
#299Earlier quoted context omitted.
TikTok is the only social media app I use anymore. I didn’t even change my default ‘user12345’ account nor have I linked anything to it. I also consume it differently than I used to do the others, by going maybe once per week or two and binge for a couple of hours. It fills me with joy and ideas just as you say.
So what is the social aspect if you're not connected with anyone?
I am not linked in the sense of my having provided only minimal information. I do follow people, of course; however, the fun part of TikTok is the random awesome people that pop up.
You can be a nobody in the middle of nowhere with no followers and if you have a cool concept it will spread out.
Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion
#300I am really annoyed at how we (EU) and the US treat chinese companies and citizens. We (europeans and americans) cant do really anything in China, we have essentially no rights and cant really conduct business. Unlike chinese who are pretty much granted all of that when they want to immigrate or conduct business in EU/US.
Agreed.
If US or EU companies can’t operate similarly in China, I see no reason to allow it the other way.