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Russian gas flows to Europe

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Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#41

Post by baxtr »

turbinerneiter wrote: post #36
clemensley wrote: post #22

Two days ago the German government voted to to shut off the three remaining nuclear power plants. https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/klima-nachhaltigkeit/...

Do you honestly believe that is a fair summary of the article? The decision to shut them down happened long ago. They voted against a proposal from the opposition to revert that. The plants were planned to shut down since a long time, there is a lot of unsolved issues around keeping them running, like fuel and personnel. The plants also would impact gas usage only by 1% and electricity isn't a great replacement short…

They could have tried at least. It’s just not a clever thing to do from a communication perspective.

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#42

Post by konschubert »

severino wrote: post #13
shmerl wrote: post #7

How fast did the rest of Europe cut ties with Nazi Germany after World War II started? Current level of feeding Russia's war machine looks bizarre.

Didn't know WWIII already started. If you meant stopping doing businesses with a country that invades another, I'm sorry to tell you that there are not enough "non-invading" countries that can sell all the resources that we in the EU need now.

Are you serious.

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#45

Post by marbu »

superphil0 wrote: post #43
superphil0 wrote: post #35

Here is another visualization of gas flow of Nordstream 1 I built https://www.pipelinestatus.com/

This website shows the storage and capacity per country in the EU https://agsi.gie.eu/

GIE is one of the data sources of the chart. It's noted on the top:

> Russian gas flows to Europe, sourced from ENTSO-G, gas storage levels from GIE.

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#46

Post by jacquesm »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #39
Tarsul wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they stopped maintenance of these nuclear power plants 3 years ago because they "knew" they were out of life. Thus, they don't have the people or the safety measurements in place to go on with nuclear. Also, if the greens have no problem going further with coal, they wouldn't have a problem going on with nuclear (for a little while). So, it's definitely based on facts and not on idealism. Also (I still don't understa…

Sure but this is Germany, a financial and manufacturing powerhouse in the world. If they decided they wanted these plants to keep running I can't imagine they would have any trouble at all doing so.

What you can imagine isn't all that relevant though, once the decision to mothball an installation of this size is made it isn't as though you decide to run your car for another year. This is a massive infrastructure project, with all kind of regulatory hoops they need to jump through to operate safely, including training of employees, gear certification and so on. Starting things back up again could well be a multi-year project.

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#47

Post by gambiting »

shmerl wrote: post #26
kazen44 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what does this have to do with OP's post? Also, your question is far more complex and not comparable to the russo-ukraine war. For one, the geo-political situation prior to WW2 and especially compared to today might aswell be from a completely different planet. Prior to world war 2, a intranational political union like the EU did not exist, not to mention most countries in europe weren't democracies at the time.

I don't see a lot of differences really in regards to the question of doing business with such regimes which equals to aiding their war.

Agreed.

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#48

Post by WJW »

baxtr wrote: post #41
turbinerneiter wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you honestly believe that is a fair summary of the article? The decision to shut them down happened long ago. They voted against a proposal from the opposition to revert that. The plants were planned to shut down since a long time, there is a lot of unsolved issues around keeping them running, like fuel and personnel. The plants also would impact gas usage only by 1% and electricity isn't a great replacement short…

They could have tried at least. It’s just not a clever thing to do from a communication perspective.

Then communicate better, like turbinerneiter just did. Something not making intuitive sense for the uninitiated does not suddenly make it a good idea.

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#49

Post by difosfor »

shmerl wrote: post #23
difosfor wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the alternative though? I also wish we would completely stop paying Russia, but this will come at incredible financial and stability (i.e: Europe falling apart) costs. Perhaps we should increase our spending on ending the war sooner instead. I don't know. We're caught between a rock and a hard place.

Well, what was the alternative during WWII? Defeating Nazi Germany for instance. Which is what happened. But surely not doing business with it during the war, that's self explanatory.

I think you're underestimating our dependency on energy in the modern world. It might be easier to convince us to just go ahead and start WW3, but we aren't going to do that, sorry. I hope we can find some way out of this that will be less harmful. What that will be I suppose only time will tell.
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