The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe • Hacker News Board

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#311

Post by svachalek » Sun, Jul 10, 2022, 4:01 PM UTC

hsn915 wrote: post #16

tkgally wrote: post #5

The linked article ends with this: “Why the Japanese media has refused to identify the ‘religious group’ that formed the motive for the killing must remain as speculation at this juncture, though it reflects very poorly on Japan’s status as a democratic nation.” It’s important to note that the Japanese media is not monolithic. It’s true that the major newspapers (Asahi, Yomiuri, Mainichi, Nikkei, etc.) and the broadc…

It's not really any different than the US. Lots of information tends to be "widely known" online to those who care to dig, but the mainstream outlets stick to some narrative that is best described as "half truth".

It's interesting that even in US papers, the sudden trend of Russian oligarchs to become suicidal or murder-suicidal overnight is largely reported at face value, at best giving the context about how suddenly and frequently it is occurring.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#312

Post by School-Cotton » Sun, Jul 10, 2022, 4:02 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #128

Aeolun wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The killer could have gone anywhere Abe was?

Not without outside help, and there is no evidence of that so this is quite speculative. I don't think it is possible for an individual to track a high ranking former official like that without being noticed so personally I see this as coincidence rather than anything else. And that may well explain the reluctance to go further in their statements by the media, they are likely just waiting for the results of the inve…

> Not without outside help

Why not? Wasn’t it public knowledge that Abe would be speaking there? At least with a few hours of notice?

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#313

Post by arunc » Sun, Jul 10, 2022, 4:03 PM UTC

dav_Oz wrote: post #165

As an incidental remark: I find it remarkable that on the surface I now know of three G7 countries / liberal democracies where the PM/President is the (grand)son of a PM/President himself. Bush Sr - Bush Jr Pierre Trudeau - Justin Trudeau Nobusuke Kishi - (Shintaro Abe; FM) - Shinzo Abe [Honorary mention: France with "Le Pen" both father & daughter made it to the second round in the presidential elections (2002; 2017…

Not just G7, it's so common in many democratic nations. Wonder if anyone did a study of democracy and nepotism.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#314

Post by orangepurple » Sun, Jul 10, 2022, 4:05 PM UTC

krisoft wrote: post #91

sacrosancty wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The claim was that there are some secrets, not all secrets which is the claim you countered.

Ok. There are no secrets “you cannot publish” in the USA. Prove it otherwise. Either by citing law, or even better by citing precedent.

"Born secret" and "born classified" are both terms which refer to a policy of information being classified from the moment of its inception, usually regardless of where it was created, and usually in reference to specific laws in the United States that are related to information that describes the operation of nuclear weapons.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#315

Post by alsetmusic » Sun, Jul 10, 2022, 4:09 PM UTC

tkgally wrote: post #5

The linked article ends with this: “Why the Japanese media has refused to identify the ‘religious group’ that formed the motive for the killing must remain as speculation at this juncture, though it reflects very poorly on Japan’s status as a democratic nation.” It’s important to note that the Japanese media is not monolithic. It’s true that the major newspapers (Asahi, Yomiuri, Mainichi, Nikkei, etc.) and the broadc…

For those curious, the first article linked says it’s the Unification Church (Moonies).

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#316

Post by maire » Sun, Jul 10, 2022, 4:12 PM UTC

brightball wrote: post #306

tkgally wrote: post #5

The linked article ends with this: “Why the Japanese media has refused to identify the ‘religious group’ that formed the motive for the killing must remain as speculation at this juncture, though it reflects very poorly on Japan’s status as a democratic nation.” It’s important to note that the Japanese media is not monolithic. It’s true that the major newspapers (Asahi, Yomiuri, Mainichi, Nikkei, etc.) and the broadc…

I ran it through Google Translate because I was curious. It appears to be something called the Unification Church? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_Church > The Family Federation for World Peace and Unification, widely known as the Unification Church or Unificationism, is a new religious movement whose members are called Unificationists and sometimes colloquially Moonies.[2] It was officially founded on 1 Ma…

Moonies used to be a big deal at college campuses in California. When my husband and I went to Berkeley in the 1970s, the Moonies were everywhere. They did many questionable things before fading away.

My husband is 4 years older than me - so he was not as aware of their recruitment practices. He said he was invited to dinner by a very attractive young woman who kept flirting with him all through dinner. She then invited him to a weekend retreat. He said he became suspicious and did not go. It was a good thing he did not go. By the time I went to Berkeley - we all knew about the retreats.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#317

Post by filoeleven » Sun, Jul 10, 2022, 4:15 PM UTC

stevenjgarner wrote: post #260

savanaly wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important to keep in mind that this might be less sinister than it first appears (or more...there's that interpretation too). The "Great families" idea reaches beyond politics into science and art as well: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/secrets-of-the-great-f... .

Thought provoking. I would love to see that article extended to include artists - e.g. musicians like Johann Sebastian Bach, whose father Johann Ambrosius Bach was a violinist employed in Erfurt (who was twin brother to Johann Christoph Bach another great Baroque musician). These brothers were the sons of Christoph Bach, court musician in Germany. On the descendent side, Johann's fifth child and second surviving son…

I see that P.D.Q. Bach is still being ignored and treated as some kind of joke. The Wikipedia article doesn’t even mention him.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#318

Post by dmix » Sun, Jul 10, 2022, 4:16 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #258

dmix wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we in fact know that if a few big news orgs dont mention the shooters names that it will motivate them to not do it? I doubt you could ever control such a thing even if you tried (Wikipedia will have to have so it's just one more step to google it). Plus the shooters often care about change via harming their targets (creating fear in a particular group is what makes something a hate crime or terroism) which happen…

There's evidence in the linked study as well as in anecdotal admissions by some perpetrators (eg Columbine murders expected mass coverage and hoped that it would inspire others). Is there any evidence to refute this?

I was talking specifically about naming the perpetrator, not that news coverage might create copycats:

> the [FBI] developed the “Don’t Name Them” campaign. The campaign aims to curb media-induced imitational mass shootings and suggests minimizing naming and describing the individuals involved in mass shootings, limiting sensationalism, and refusing to broadcast shooter statements or videos.

This sort of thing comes up every time there's a mass shooting, commenters attack the media for naming the person.

My point is that even if the media on non-specific about the names/motives those details will come out somewhere and people will find it if they want to. Trying to control specific information is a fools game.

The one actual study they reference is how imitation suicides increased with coverage (ie subway jumpers -> more suicides via subway jumpers).

https://sci-hub.st/https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.10...

I do believe reducing the volume of coverage could certainly have an effect. Wall-to-wall coverage makes these acts notorious and puts the ideas into peoples minds.

If there is going to be reporting on it avoiding biographic details on the perp won't make much difference. Plus I really doubt the main motivation of most of these shooters is to be personally named, rather they want maximum impact for their crimes. They know the specific details will spread via other channels regardless, all it needs is the original seed in the media about the general crime.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#319

Post by kevinmchugh » Sun, Jul 10, 2022, 4:17 PM UTC

fma wrote: post #174

Jensson wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would China or North Korea convince a Japanese soldier to openly kill his leader and face death penalty? There is very little social exchange between these countries, extremely few foreigners speaks Japanese, I just don't see how they could indoctrinate him to such a degree that he would give up his own life for that cause. Extremely few people give up their life for a cause even when they grew up in that society…

Well, this is my fear of TikTok. We've seen how Facebook and Twitter (and certsin news media) polarized/brainwashed Americans in convincing Obama is Muslim and not born in the US through crude algorithms to increase clicks. Imagine TikTok, who isn't just driven by ad revenue but the need to keep the Chinese government happy.

I think birtherism spread mostly in places other than Facebook and Twitter. Its heyday was before those groups were on social media. Facebook's audience in 2010 was much younger than its audience in 2016, and Twitter adoption at that point was pretty minor.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#320

Post by ncann » Sun, Jul 10, 2022, 4:17 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #128

Aeolun wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The killer could have gone anywhere Abe was?

Not without outside help, and there is no evidence of that so this is quite speculative. I don't think it is possible for an individual to track a high ranking former official like that without being noticed so personally I see this as coincidence rather than anything else. And that may well explain the reluctance to go further in their statements by the media, they are likely just waiting for the results of the inve…

> I don't think it is possible for an individual to track a high ranking former official like that without being noticed so personally

In this case Shinzo Abe was doing some campaigning for his party, so obviously his destination must be communicated beforehand on the news so that people know to show up.