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The world needs a non-profit search engine

daoudclarke.net

161–170 of 396 posts

Re: The world needs a non-profit search engine

#161
post #155

Disclaimer: I work for Google, though far away from Search. Regardless of search engine design, there's HUGE money in SEO. Any successful search engine will be gamed. Do you have the developer power to go red-queen against all the large companies in the world?

And that money goes to support many industries beyond search itself. The author really needs to get off a computer for a minute and understand the economics of the web as it stands today and how the free ad supported model supports millions of peoples livelihoods before jumping to "This is all bullshit"

Re: The world needs a non-profit search engine

#162

The "funding options" part has the unsurprising blind spot that, maybe, a search engine is the kind of basic infrastructure that ought to be paid (at least in part) by... The taxpayers ? I have a long standing bet that, at some point, some company will be "globalized" (operated under some common funding by many different countries, like many research projects or defense organization or aid funds, etc...), and the "se…

The author is not going to be able to convince governments to fund it unless they can first demonstrate a viable service.

Re: The world needs a non-profit search engine

#163

It's unfortunate that with all the immense value that search engines provide the idea of paying a small monthly or annual fee to use a search engine is incomprehensible for most people.

A small fee to a SV resident is a larger fee to most of the people in the rest of the US/EU is a prohibitive fee to many others.

Re: The world needs a non-profit search engine

#164
post #155

Disclaimer: I work for Google, though far away from Search. Regardless of search engine design, there's HUGE money in SEO. Any successful search engine will be gamed. Do you have the developer power to go red-queen against all the large companies in the world?

This is a great point and a really hard problem to solve.

Do you think a Wikipedia style team of human reviewers with upvote/downvote capabilities can help reduce the SEO spam?

Obviously it’s hard to review the reviewers as well but Wikipedia seems to have done that.

Re: The world needs a non-profit search engine

#166
post #155

Disclaimer: I work for Google, though far away from Search. Regardless of search engine design, there's HUGE money in SEO. Any successful search engine will be gamed. Do you have the developer power to go red-queen against all the large companies in the world?

I think Google search is using the wrong approach. When I'm looking for e.g. a new camera, I want to use my network which I trust. E.g. I want to ask "what camera would HN recommend?" We should think more about how we can use trust as a basis for how we explore the internet.

Re: The world needs a non-profit search engine

#167
It's perhaps a bit on the side but still part of the topic of search.

Have you noticed how newspapers systematically do not supply a clear source for their articles? It's especially prevalent on political cases where there are easy-to-link paper trails. This makes it a lot harder to find the source for their article, so you end up just taking their word for their angle on the story.

A great recent example is Biden's Executive Order on the protection of women. When the newspapers writes about his EO, they're never doing it form a neutral standpoint. In this case they're either pro or anti abortion. But if you want to know the contents of Biden's EO for yourself, then you're forced to search for it. And depending on the search engine, that might also be hard because also search engines are politically biased.

Just so we're clear, this post isn't pro or anti abortion. Instead it's an example on how newspapers systematically force you to take their word for their angle on any given news story. So if you want to know source material, then you're forced to search for it. And when you do search for it, you're then at the mercy of the political bias of the search engine.

For that reason I'm not so sure a non-profit search engine will make political biases go away, especially when you consider what happened to Wikipedia. While not a search engine, it is a non-profit and communal project that set out with the ideal of being truly neutral, but in the end it failed at that, and some would say spectacularly. And the main reason is exactly bullshit, or rather the BS that comes with political bias.

Don't get me wrong, it's still a great source for information, but when you search for any topic that is in any shape or form politically sensitive, then you have to know about Wikipedia's clear political bias beforehand, or else you might take their angle as gospel.

This is especially insidious when it comes to search engines and also social networks, because most people assume that what is shown to them there is neutral, or at least coming from a friendly party. But then it turns out, that's not always the case.

When you systematically get biased information, then it's a democratic problem, because it prevents people from making up their own mind about political topics. Thus when people finally vote, the risk is that we get a society that does not reflect peoples actual opinions.

I think most people in here has been on the receiving end of that, no matter which side of the aisle you're on. And the result is always resentment and bitterness which in turn does not make for a healthy democratic environment.

Instead the political bias should be more clearly visible and out in the open on both newspapers, encyclopaedias and search engines alike. And while a non-profit search engine would certainly save you from corporate interests, it still won't save you from political ones, though it might be a good trade-off to save privacy.

Re: The world needs a non-profit search engine

#168
post #64

We don't need another centralized search service. We need protocols for publishing and finding information that do not rely on servers.

Can you elaborate? https://yacy.net/ is a decentralized search engine. Are there shortcomings to the protocol?

Re: The world needs a non-profit search engine

#169
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I use duck duck go. You use a proxied Bing. If you want a proxied Google (what I prefer), you can use https://startpage.com

Startpage results are so bad I just thought it was a home-made search engine rather than a Google proxy. How is this possible?

Funny, I find them to be identical to Google's results localized for Sweden. Are you possibly using Google Search logged in or saving cookies between closing tabs (i.e. not using Cookie AutoDelete)?

Re: The world needs a non-profit search engine

#170
post #90

Perhaps a better approach would be building an open source www index or even a full current cache - as an enabler for people to build their own search engines? Right now it is extremely difficult to build your own web crawler that would compete with Google. And that is not because of the technology, but because multiple sites will prevent your bot from accessing them if you're not Google or Bing - either through robo…

Yes, the article could better read, 'Why the world needs a range of non-profit search engines'
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