Programmers' salaries at Google $250k (and up) • Hacker News Board

Re: Programmers' salaries at Google $250k (and up)

#171

Post by yummyfajitas » Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 9:08 PM UTC

Eliezer wrote: post #156

cletus wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spot on. (d) in particular is worth stressing. There is no difficulty in attracting and retaining talent. There is simply an unwillingness to pay them what they're worth and give them an environment in which they'd want to work. Supply and demand. It's pretty simple. Yet so many (typically business types) want to treat engineers as an interchangeable cost center. "5 years ago an engineer cost $100k so I refuse to pay…

Hi! This is the Market Economics Fairy! I help supply and demand equilibrate everywhere! If nobody can find good programmers to hire, it means that programmer salaries are too low! Raise programmer salaries until... ...erm, actually, students are remarkably goddamn insensitive to their future salaries when it comes to picking a major. And the other way S&D could equilibrate here is by fewer companies even trying to h…

Just a note, there is a followup paper to "The Camel Has Two Humps". From the abstract:

Two years ago we appeared to have discovered an exciting and enigmatic new predictor of success in a first programming course. We now report that after six experiments, involving more than 500 students at six institutions in three countries, the predictive effect of our test has failed to live up to that early promise.

http://www.eis.mdx.ac.uk/research/PhDArea/saeed/paper3.pdf

Also, assuming this were not the case, it's hardly clear that searching for magic programming gear is a commons problem. Why couldn't Google/Facebook administer the simple tests and keep the results secret?

I forgot, they already try to do this, but it doesn't give them enough applicants: http://www.mentalfloss.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/Google... http://www.facebook.com/careers/puzzles.php

Or why couldn't a trusted third party, like Microsoft, Cisco or Red had charge journalism majors/unemployed adults to take the test?

I forgot, they already try to do this, but they just don't do a very good job and their tests have little predictive power: https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/community/certifications/c... http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/mcse.a... http://www.redhat.com/certification/rhce/

Re: Programmers' salaries at Google $250k (and up)

#172

Post by iaskwhy » Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 9:18 PM UTC

stef25 wrote: post #130

raldi wrote: post #37

Speaking as a Google engineer: There are three components to compensation here. Base salary, annual cash bonus, and stock grants. When he says he "takes home" $250k, he probably means the sum of all three. When the author says he thought the average Google salary was $130k, he might be referring just to the base. Most of the comments in this thread are similarly ambiguous. If you post a comment, please be clear about…

Without wanting to sound stupid, when you talk about salaries do you always mention the amount before or after tax? Here in Europe it's almost always after tax.

In the UK, it has always been before tax with me.

In Portugal, it depends: if you are on a contract then it's after tax, if you are not on a contract (think consultant) it's before tax. This happens because most people have no idea that the other side receives only the net wage and vice-versa.

Re: Programmers' salaries at Google $250k (and up)

#173

Post by aantix » Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 9:18 PM UTC

shin_lao wrote: post #14

$ 250,000 a year must include stocks, bonus, 401k and healthcare. As is, it doesn't match the insider information I have about Google's salaries. Let's be realistic a minute, $ 250k/year is a lot of money.

250K is a lot of money depending on where you live.

You can't take simple things for granted in the Bay Area. Want to raise a family of four and actually have three or four bedrooms, you're looking at a million+ dollar house.

250K is what you should be shooting for if you have goals such as these.

Re: Programmers' salaries at Google $250k (and up)

#174

Post by iradik » Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 9:20 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #94

iradik wrote: post #79

I don't understand the article, the author says the current googler was one of his "ex-employees" but he is "the guy he just met". Am I missing something here?

"the guy I just met" can be someone you never knew before or someone that you've just had a meeting with. I thought from the context that it was clear I meant the second version.

This is just my opinion/rant.

I just met this guy. Idk just doesn't conjure up the idea of someone you once knew. It's just loose language, that's why I was confused.

Also you said you recently met him, then you say you just met him. Which is it?

"The guy I just met who was once my ex-employee." This sentence just feels confusing. I can't tell you why but it does.

A simple "He" would be much clearer.

Re: Programmers' salaries at Google $250k (and up)

#175

Post by dev_jim » Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 9:36 PM UTC

I'm not sure why people find this so unbelievable.

The revenue per employee at GOOG is $1.2M in a very high margin business. That means some of their best developers, the guys whose products generate all the revenue, take home only 20% of the pie. In finance, this would be laughable.

Corporate America baffles me sometimes.

Re: Programmers' salaries at Google $250k (and up)

#176

Post by nostrademons » Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 9:42 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #127

wanorris wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, setting up software firms where the best developers can "make partner" would be quite an interesting approach. I'm not sure it would work, but if it did, it could be a perfect solution for keeping a great team together for the long haul.

The amount of politics and backbiting and sabotage that gets mixed in with partner-track programs is horrifying. Find an incentive scheme that empowers first-year hires to do amazing things for your company.

That's sorta the YCombinator model, isn't it? If you do really amazing things, you get acquired for a few hundred million. If you do somewhat amazing things, you get acqhired for a million or so. If you don't do anything, you get nothing.

Seems to be largely working within the specific space of Silicon Valley YCombinator-funded startups, but I'm not sure how well it scales. There's a pretty sharp filter for getting into YC, and for someone without access to PG's connections, the chance of hitting it big or getting acqhired may not be worth the risk they take.

Re: Programmers' salaries at Google $250k (and up)

#177

Post by bobbydavid » Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 9:46 PM UTC

stef25 wrote: post #130

raldi wrote: post #37

Speaking as a Google engineer: There are three components to compensation here. Base salary, annual cash bonus, and stock grants. When he says he "takes home" $250k, he probably means the sum of all three. When the author says he thought the average Google salary was $130k, he might be referring just to the base. Most of the comments in this thread are similarly ambiguous. If you post a comment, please be clear about…

Without wanting to sound stupid, when you talk about salaries do you always mention the amount before or after tax? Here in Europe it's almost always after tax.

In the US some taxes are paid by the employee and some by the employer. The salary that's quoted is before employee taxes but after employer taxes.

Re: Programmers' salaries at Google $250k (and up)

#178

Post by nostrademons » Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 9:49 PM UTC

Selvik wrote: post #128

fake_handle wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding to the data pool: I'm also an under-30 engineer making ~250k in the Bay Area (at a publicly-traded gaming company, not at Google). My company has six pay grades for pure engineers; I'm at the second highest. My 2011 comp breaks down as follows: * 166k base * 45k bonus * 35k stock grants (RSUs) Note this does not include 401k matching, stock purchase plan, healthcare, or any other quantifiable perks. When I too…

Isn't a perfect math score very hard to get, something like the upper 1%ile? Do you know your IQ? I'm scandinavian and could do a traditional finance/consulting/management/accounting thing in my home country but the software industry seems far more fascinating. I'm afraid my 120 to 125 iq means I'm too stupid to do well in SV though.

I had that 155+ IQ and 800 SAT-M score, and honestly, the best thing it's done for me is take away my excuse for failing.

Once you get to a high enough intelligence that you can understand what the people around you are telling you and follow their train of thought, intelligence really doesn't matter all that much. Other characteristics like perseverance, social & communication skills, and emotional stability become dominant. There's nothing "magical" about getting an 800 SAT-M (or working at Google, for that matter), it's just that the effect of having a large body of knowledge that we spent thousands of hours acquiring to draw upon.

Re: Programmers' salaries at Google $250k (and up)

#179

Post by div » Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 9:54 PM UTC

stef25 wrote: post #130

raldi wrote: post #37

Speaking as a Google engineer: There are three components to compensation here. Base salary, annual cash bonus, and stock grants. When he says he "takes home" $250k, he probably means the sum of all three. When the author says he thought the average Google salary was $130k, he might be referring just to the base. Most of the comments in this thread are similarly ambiguous. If you post a comment, please be clear about…

Without wanting to sound stupid, when you talk about salaries do you always mention the amount before or after tax? Here in Europe it's almost always after tax.

I'm from Belgium, and I've never heard people talk about their salary after tax.

edit: to answer your question, the 250k is before tax.

Re: Programmers' salaries at Google $250k (and up)

#180

Post by teratau » Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 10:07 PM UTC

littledanehren wrote: post #119

teratau wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know if the 10% raise is automatically applied to the base salary of new hires as well? I'm looking for a new job, and strangely, Google's base is about 10% lower than the base from my other offers (Apple, Facebook, Zynga, LinkedIn), rather than 10% higher. Also, to add my own datapoint: I'm four years out from undergrad at an elite school, and Google offered me $120k base and 500 stock units over four years.…

Tell your Google recruiter about your competing offers, especially if you're considering choosing another job on this basis.

Ah, I did, and he slightly more than tripled my RSUs (from 150 to 500), but left my base the same. Which is also weird since that base is lower than my current one.