Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Is job hopping as bad as they say?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 45 posts

Re: Ask HN: Is job hopping as bad as they say?

#21

Post by only_throwing »

rco8786 wrote: post #19
lucozade wrote: post #7

With a few exceptions, yes, it will likely hurt your long term prospects. The reason is pretty straightforward. If I, as a manager, see that you have a history of 1-2 year tenures, It's sensible for me to assume that that's what you'll do at my company too. The more senior the position, the longer term the work usually is. So, if you're making decisions for 5-10 years but are only going to be around for 2, what's the…

As a counterpoint, I sit on multiple hiring bars every week and have never once seen a candidate be rejected because of job hopping past. I always check, and I always bring it up, but it is a tertiary concern at best. Though I personally agree with your assessment.

Would you mind sharing if it's at startups, large companies with younger or older professionals?

Re: Ask HN: Is job hopping as bad as they say?

#22

Post by rco8786 »

only_throwing wrote: post #21
rco8786 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counterpoint, I sit on multiple hiring bars every week and have never once seen a candidate be rejected because of job hopping past. I always check, and I always bring it up, but it is a tertiary concern at best. Though I personally agree with your assessment.

Would you mind sharing if it's at startups, large companies with younger or older professionals?

Large co. Wide range of experience/age though worth noting that it’s ~85% IC roles rather than leadership.

Re: Ask HN: Is job hopping as bad as they say?

#23

Post by rufus_foreman »

>> if: - job hopping hurts long term career growth at management level and above

Sounds like you're a team lead/manager looking to move higher up into management in the future? If that's the case, pay is certainly important, all else being equal you take the higher paying job because typically in the higher paying job more is expected of you, but you need to look at how the new role is going to get you the experience that gets you into whatever management position you're hoping to grow into.

The wild card of course is the economy, in a recession it becomes a game of musical chairs. If things get bad you might end up back on the market real quick. Maybe the hiring managers today would compromise and hire someone with only short tenure positions because there aren't any other levers they can tweak and they either hire or lose the position. In a recession the hiring manager doesn't compromise, you do. Maybe we go into a recession, maybe one has already started, maybe it's all a false alarm.

Re: Ask HN: Is job hopping as bad as they say?

#24

Post by isbvhodnvemrwvn »

jstx1 wrote: post #14
dyingkneepad wrote: post #12

I had a manager who absolutely refused to hire job hoppers. He would look at the CVs and say things such as "this guy doesn't have 10 years of experience, he has 1 year of experience 10 times!". It made a lot of sense because in that specific job it took a lot of time for people to learn everything and become proficient. Hiring someone and expecting them to stay for 1-2 years was a bad thing, since training there was…

Huh, it's strange that he phrased it as "1 year of experience 10 times" - I've only heard this phrase to refer to people with long tenures who don't get to learn anything new over the years.

You see similar phenomena with long-term contractors (who jump projects all the time) - they are brought in with no agency in the project, get handed something to implement, they do it in move on. Sure they have experience implementing something others have designed, but that's just a small slice of software engineering. Although I agree it's not common to use that particular phrase with this situation.

Re: Ask HN: Is job hopping as bad as they say?

#25

Post by silentsea90 »

I am in almost the same state as you (age, num companies etc). In my latest job switch interviewing, a company did actually reject me for this reason. I think it is important to not do it too much. In my infinite wisdom I took a chance this time by leaving Google for a startup before a recession, and feel I might have to stick it out to not have another short stint. I like my job/co so far, but I would recommend being careful with your choices and not switch unless you're more sure than usual because you can't as easily hop next time to a great co. Another option is to switch teams within big co if your current team isn't fun. I know that it is tricky to find a team and company that just hits it right in terms of your interests, passion etc. but one can only make switches at a high frequency so often. Raise the bar for what it'd take to switch is my thought on this.

Re: Ask HN: Is job hopping as bad as they say?

#26

Post by djohnston »

jstx1 wrote: post #8
lucozade wrote: post #7

With a few exceptions, yes, it will likely hurt your long term prospects. The reason is pretty straightforward. If I, as a manager, see that you have a history of 1-2 year tenures, It's sensible for me to assume that that's what you'll do at my company too. The more senior the position, the longer term the work usually is. So, if you're making decisions for 5-10 years but are only going to be around for 2, what's the…

I don't think longer tenures are as positive of a signal as you're making them out to be. - You can essentially have 1 year experience repeated n times. - People with very long tenures can have a narrower view of what software development is. By switching more often you get to be exposed to different domains, teams, managers, ways of working and in a way you can mentally abstract over them instead of learning the pro…

I think if every tenure is less than two years it's a red flag for a senior position. Anyone can get by for a year but if you're around for two you'll inevitably need to deal with conflict resolution and maintaining relationships and products.

If you can't stick around two years anywhere I'm prone to thinking you're someone who vomits a bunch of code and then leaves the team to pick up your mess. Or someone who can't provide critical feedback without sabotaging the relationship. Either is a no go for a senior position.

Re: Ask HN: Is job hopping as bad as they say?

#27

Post by arealaccount »

If you are someone who prefers startups over big companies, then you will find value building relationships with your peers and leadership. Hopping around will make this difficult.

There is no shortage of high paying companies that don’t care, but you will have trouble building those relationships if you reset once per year.

Re: Ask HN: Is job hopping as bad as they say?

#28

Post by djohnston »

jstx1 wrote: post #14
dyingkneepad wrote: post #12

I had a manager who absolutely refused to hire job hoppers. He would look at the CVs and say things such as "this guy doesn't have 10 years of experience, he has 1 year of experience 10 times!". It made a lot of sense because in that specific job it took a lot of time for people to learn everything and become proficient. Hiring someone and expecting them to stay for 1-2 years was a bad thing, since training there was…

Huh, it's strange that he phrased it as "1 year of experience 10 times" - I've only heard this phrase to refer to people with long tenures who don't get to learn anything new over the years.

That's interesting, I've never heard it with longer tenures because people tend to leave if they aren't getting promotions, growing responsibilities, etc.

If someone's stays in the same place for 10 years with no growth I'd love to analyse that gig.

Re: Ask HN: Is job hopping as bad as they say?

#30

Post by jstx1 »

djohnston wrote: post #26
jstx1 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think longer tenures are as positive of a signal as you're making them out to be. - You can essentially have 1 year experience repeated n times. - People with very long tenures can have a narrower view of what software development is. By switching more often you get to be exposed to different domains, teams, managers, ways of working and in a way you can mentally abstract over them instead of learning the pro…

I think if every tenure is less than two years it's a red flag for a senior position. Anyone can get by for a year but if you're around for two you'll inevitably need to deal with conflict resolution and maintaining relationships and products. If you can't stick around two years anywhere I'm prone to thinking you're someone who vomits a bunch of code and then leaves the team to pick up your mess. Or someone who can't…

> If you can't stick around two years anywhere I'm prone to thinking you're someone who vomits a bunch of code and then leaves the team to pick up your mess. Or someone who can't provide critical feedback without sabotaging the relationship.

In another comment in this same thread you wrote:

> people tend to leave if they aren't getting promotions, growing responsibilities, etc.

So you already know that it's entirely possible that someone is doing great (doesn't vomit code that can't be maintained, doesn't ruin relationships) and still leaves a job after a year or two. So I don't get why you then assume the worst case when you see shorter tenures, that doesn't make sense to me.

Post reply on HN