College has been oversold • Hacker News Board

Re: College has been oversold

#251

Post by JamesPeterson » Thu, Nov 03, 2011, 8:06 PM UTC

jlangenauer wrote: post #138

JamesPeterson wrote: post #78

Here in Australia, liberal arts majors are subsidized less than STEM majors. We also have a largely subsidized public university system in general - we have just one private university (but many private colleges). As an example of what this means, the University of Queensland located down the road from me is often ranked in the top 50 worldwide. Science courses at UQ are about half the cost of liberal arts majors. I…

When did that happen? When I did my degree (mechanical engineering at UQ, as it happens) there were 3 HECS bands - liberal arts was the cheapest, engineering/science/business was the middle band, and law/medicine was the highest. I understood that the difference in bands was due to the difference in earning potential of the graduates.

Oh wow! I've just looked - and you are correct. This has blown me away. That said, I swear I've read (somewhere) that arts courses are subsidized less. I wonder if that simply means arts courses are substantially cheaper to run?

Thanks for picking that up for me.

Re: College has been oversold

#252

Post by Hyena » Thu, Nov 03, 2011, 9:46 PM UTC

overgryphon wrote: post #172

Hyena wrote: post #80

I have a degree in art history and have been applying to graduate school in computer science. I have had ample opportunity to reflect systematically on my choices in undergrad and what I've done since graduating. While early drafts of personal statements have made claims like "mistake", those drafts never make the cut. No one ever oversold college to me. Liberal arts education went precisely as my professors describe…

STEM education isn't for everyone. At my college, they've made it too easy- I know someone graduating with a CS degree who couldn't accurately state the purpose of a compiler. The people I know who actually dropped out were too discouraged by failing one class early on in college. We need a system where retaking a class is considered as normal rather than as a failure. Failing a class you didn't understand so you ret…

The irony of STEM education, especially engineering, is that the people who design the curriculum would not think an acceptable end user outcome is "if it fails, buy another and try again". They would redesign it until you got the desired result consistently.

Re: College has been oversold

#253

Post by Apocryphon » Sat, Nov 05, 2011, 4:12 AM UTC

anamax wrote: post #248

Apocryphon wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that the majority of "art" is crap is a very subjective opinion.

Are you claiming that there's an objective definition of "good art"? If so, let's see it. In any event, "subjective" doesn't imply wrong. Are you claiming that a majority of art is not crap? Does your argument avoid the "no true Scotsman" fallacy?

How can you claim that the majority of art as crap? Did you do a survey? What is your definition of art?

Re: College has been oversold

#254

Post by dredmorbius » Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 8:57 PM UTC

jtbigwoo wrote: post #59

maratd wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Really, it's a cultural problem. No, it's an economic one. > I have a liberal arts degree from an "elite private university". Ok. Let's make the assumption that you're at least moderately intelligent and would be able to get a job for 40K from the bat. 40K * 4 = 160K College tuition is 40K itself at an "elite private university". Then you add living expenses, books, food, etc. and you have another 25K. That's 65K.…

You're working with the edge case in your example where a really smart person can get an amazing job right out of high school. It's more instructive to look at the average case: - In the current economy, the number of high school grads making $40k/year is vanishingly small. It's more likely he'd be making 25k or less if he has a job at all. - 25k for living expenses and books for a college student is way too high unl…

What do those stats look like normed for some proxy of intelligence, say, IQ, SAT/ACT scores, etc.?

I'm not sold either way on the debate myself. I think there are a lot of people in college who'd be better off outside, and a lot of people outside who'd be better off in. More to the point: I think that society as a whole would be better off with a different distribution of higher education opportunity.

Paraphrasing William Gibson: higher education is here, it's just not evenly distributed.