System76 Lemur Pro Linux laptop with 14 hours of battery life • Hacker News Board

Re: System76 Lemur Pro Linux laptop with 14 hours of battery life

#281

Post by trelane » Sat, Jul 09, 2022, 5:08 PM UTC

twawaaay wrote: post #212

cycomanic wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to comment much on the rest, but the whole trope of: a Linux machine is not for someone who isn't comfortable with the cli" needs to die. My partner is essentially computer illiterate (she didn't know about keyboard shortcuts, even for copy paste before we met and still doesn't really use them) and has been using my old Ubuntu laptop for years. The only thing I do is tell her from time to time not just t…

Unfortunately, you are wrong. I have quarter of century experience working on Linux including running it on all my laptops and desktops for 23 years. Over the years keeping it working started becoming what seems like a full time job and I jumped the ship for M1 MacBook Pro. It still has a lot of problems but at least I have more time to do my actual work. I understand I might just becoming less tolerant of wasting ti…

> I have quarter of century experience working on Linux including running it on all my laptops and desktops for 23 years.

> Over the years keeping it working started becoming what seems like a full time job

These two statements are not unrelated.

Re: System76 Lemur Pro Linux laptop with 14 hours of battery life

#282

Post by dahfizz » Sat, Jul 09, 2022, 5:09 PM UTC

throwawaymaths wrote: post #241

jmondi wrote: post #150

I had this laptop, but ultimately replaced it with a 14” M1 Max. Some thoughts: - The screen is so much worse, in every way, than a MacBook. A “low resolution” (more like, not high dpi) matte screen vs the M1 screen, there is no comparison. When I first got this machine, my eyes would have to adjust to the screen, and it felt so blurry compared to my works retina Touch Bar Mac - PopOS is great! It is definitely one o…

I went from a lemur 14" to a Mac m1 and the following things broke: - dual monitors were detected only as one monitor, and we're mirrored. - USB mouse (I disprefer Bluetooth mice) would have to be unplugged and plugged back in if the laptop went to sleep - no home/end keys - I had installed all of my corporate 2FA stuff on safari and safari would randomly drop me from Google meets. No other browser had this issue. Th…

> - no home/end keys

> The ctl/option madness definitely tanked my productivity

I am forced to work on a Mac at my job. Buying a Mac-layout mechanical keyboard is a must. It has home/end and it has control in the right place (why on earth would apple put fn in the bottom left??).

Re: System76 Lemur Pro Linux laptop with 14 hours of battery life

#283

Post by trelane » Sat, Jul 09, 2022, 5:09 PM UTC

dahfizz wrote: post #278

twawaaay wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, you are wrong. I have quarter of century experience working on Linux including running it on all my laptops and desktops for 23 years. Over the years keeping it working started becoming what seems like a full time job and I jumped the ship for M1 MacBook Pro. It still has a lot of problems but at least I have more time to do my actual work. I understand I might just becoming less tolerant of wasting ti…

In my experience, the people who spend so much time maintaining their Linux are the people hacking on their OS. Which is something I encourage; the customizability of Linux is part of what makes it so great. But if you load up the newest Ubuntu lts on a laptop and never fiddle with configs, switch display managers/ desktops, etc, then there will be zero maintenance required.

Also, buy Linux preinstalled and fully supported by the vendor. Saves so many headaches.

Re: System76 Lemur Pro Linux laptop with 14 hours of battery life

#284

Post by codedokode » Sat, Jul 09, 2022, 5:09 PM UTC

Looks interesting. Here is what I would change:

- increase screen size to at least 15.5" because small screen is unusable for programming and for browsing modern websites with large font size and large pictures

- use IPS panel (can increase cost)

- make arrow keys full size (doesn't cost anything)

- add 7 keys for additional Cyrillic letters and 2 keys to switch between layouts (doesn't cost anything)

- add 3 USB ports and Ethernet (doesn't noticeably increase cost)

- increase RAM limit to 128 Gb (shouldn't cost anything, it is probably just a software limitation)

- use standard 3.5mm audio jacks

Using a better LCD panel can increase cost, so here is how this can be conpensated:

- use an older cheaper CPU. Newest CPUs usually have lower performance to cost ratio and therefore it doesn't make sense to buy them. Also why pay for 10 cores when most of the time you will be using 1 or 2?

- support cheaper HDD instead of SSD

- remove unnecessary speakers

- remove unnecessary keyboard backlight. Using laptop in darkness is bad for eyes anyway.

Also I am surprised that a modern i7 CPU that costs over $470 has just 12Mb cache. You can (probably) buy an old CPU with more cache for smaller price.

Re: System76 Lemur Pro Linux laptop with 14 hours of battery life

#285

Post by niclo » Sat, Jul 09, 2022, 5:12 PM UTC

movover wrote: post #269

jmondi wrote: post #150

I had this laptop, but ultimately replaced it with a 14” M1 Max. Some thoughts: - The screen is so much worse, in every way, than a MacBook. A “low resolution” (more like, not high dpi) matte screen vs the M1 screen, there is no comparison. When I first got this machine, my eyes would have to adjust to the screen, and it felt so blurry compared to my works retina Touch Bar Mac - PopOS is great! It is definitely one o…

> PopOS is great! It is definitely one of the best Linux desktops I’ve used. Manjaro gives it a nice run for it’s money… But.. next year is going to be the year of the Linux desktop! No disrespect to @jeremy_soller, because he is doing a killer job on Pop, but even in 2022, the Linux desktop is RC Cola, and MacOS is Genuine Coke Cola. I’m sure there are die hard RC Cola fans, but most of the world will definitely sti…

Pretty much agree, was going to make a similar but shorter comment.

To me it feels like the opposite, Windows is the true Coke Cola just because some things work better and the vast majority of people use it like you suggest, Linux is some fresh Pepsi (to say, I know the other is more popular but I don't care and prefer its unique taste) and macOS is some ok discount cola, which is alright but nothing people should go proud of drinking.

Re: System76 Lemur Pro Linux laptop with 14 hours of battery life

#286

Post by dan-robertson » Sat, Jul 09, 2022, 5:12 PM UTC

cal85 wrote: post #219

sneak wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue is much less shiny/matte and much more high-res/low-res. It seems to be a point of pride in the Linux community that low-res screens are sufficient. Maybe it's because only Apple has figured out how to do both high-res and long battery life/low weight in a single system. The ultrabooks (air clones) are all struggling to replicate it. My 4k XPS13 has atrocious battery life. The only way that this mac…

Agree. It’s a shame the Linux community is so set in its ways. All I really want is decent, grown-up looking Arch Linux laptop with reasonable battery life and performance that boots to CLI and has retina resolution (>200ppi). People imagine retina must be all about graphics, but for me it’s 90% for sharp text. It doubles the amount of time I can use a computer before my brain starts flagging. I use a MacBook Pro bec…

If all the apple hardware including their gpu (maybe except particularly proprietary things like Touch ID / Secure Enclave) were supported well on Linux and power management we’re sufficiently figured out to not bea total disaster, would that be ok or is it unacceptable that the thing came with nonfree software or to risk apple’s future hardware being unsupportable?

Re: System76 Lemur Pro Linux laptop with 14 hours of battery life

#287

Post by wardedVibe » Sat, Jul 09, 2022, 5:20 PM UTC

toastal wrote: post #223

arminiusreturns wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about we also include how MS infiltrated the education system with hidden incentives and essentially forced training in a non-free user hostile operating system to multiple genrations of people? I think people had to learn Windows. They can learn Linux. The excuses are bs. Schools should teach unix/linux, and not proprietary systems. We should expect people to learn new things to be able to operate new tools. Tha…

It's all software really. Most people would be fine without Adobe or Microsoft Office or Google Docs. We don't need to train kids with GitHub, Sibelius or Dorico, the list goes on. Concepts don't require application-specific training and the FOSS options are largely good enough if not better than the proprietary competitors.

And would be even better and improve faster with more users.

Re: System76 Lemur Pro Linux laptop with 14 hours of battery life

#288

Post by baybal2 » Sat, Jul 09, 2022, 5:22 PM UTC

nrp wrote: post #194

baybal2 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Impressive it is for an "OS brand, yet it's just another relabelled Tongfang laptop, so people really need to blame not OEM, but people who keep buying from them instead of designing own hardware. Designing a laptop from scratch may be an adventure with a budget close to $200k-$300k, but there are tons, and tons of US brands who can pull this financially. Yet, even the "innovative" Framework laptop is mostly OEM work…

The Framework Laptop is entirely our own design and architecture, with no white-label or pre-existing ODM/OEM parts. The cost of developing a from scratch laptop like ours is closer to the mid seven figures.

> entirely our own design and architecture, with no white-label or pre-existing ODM/OEM parts

My impression was that Quanta does way more for Framework than final integration. Well, good to see that somebody takes on the design themselves today.

> The cost of developing a from scratch laptop like ours is closer to the mid seven figures.

With most of that being the cost of buying the reference design, and access to the documentation I believe?

I last worked on a budget Atom laptop back in 2014. Back then the docs were freely available with enough good Googling, as well as commercial quantities of Atom chipsets sold around Intel's channel. Now I believe it's near impossible without going through an Intel approved IDH.

Re: System76 Lemur Pro Linux laptop with 14 hours of battery life

#289

Post by jbeard4 » Sat, Jul 09, 2022, 5:23 PM UTC

I have had this specific system for about a year, and I get about 4-5 hours battery life for my main use case, which is web development, zoom calls and remote computing with Remmina (RDP). One of the best things about it is the native support for Docker. Overall, I have been pretty happy with it, and will probably purchase from System76 again when it's time to upgrade.

Happy to answer any questions anyone has about it.

Re: System76 Lemur Pro Linux laptop with 14 hours of battery life

#290

Post by Gareth321 » Sat, Jul 09, 2022, 5:27 PM UTC

cycomanic wrote: post #175

jmondi wrote: post #150

I had this laptop, but ultimately replaced it with a 14” M1 Max. Some thoughts: - The screen is so much worse, in every way, than a MacBook. A “low resolution” (more like, not high dpi) matte screen vs the M1 screen, there is no comparison. When I first got this machine, my eyes would have to adjust to the screen, and it felt so blurry compared to my works retina Touch Bar Mac - PopOS is great! It is definitely one o…

I don't want to comment much on the rest, but the whole trope of: a Linux machine is not for someone who isn't comfortable with the cli" needs to die. My partner is essentially computer illiterate (she didn't know about keyboard shortcuts, even for copy paste before we met and still doesn't really use them) and has been using my old Ubuntu laptop for years. The only thing I do is tell her from time to time not just t…

No one is claiming Linux is bad for very basic users. It’s fine for people who only ever use bowsers. Linux is also great for developers. It’s most of us in between who struggle. The last time I booted up Ubuntu I couldn’t even adjust the mouse acceleration without spending 10 minutes on Google and more time installing an additional tool. I tried to install Radarr - a very popular home media server app. The instruction manual required is absurd: https://wiki.servarr.com/radarr/installation

Linux developers need to start caring about UX if they want the OS to appreciably rise above 1-2% consumer. Users should never ever, for any reason ever, need to open the CLI. Not when I want to install or configure an app, and certainly not when I want to update a driver or setting.