Live data from Hacker News

Few people grasp the amount of effort Daniel Gackle expends running HN (2020)

twitter.com

101–110 of 170 posts

Re: Few people grasp the amount of effort Daniel Gackle expends running HN (2020)

#101
post #58

Posts like these, for me, highlight the class divide. PG thinks "few people" grasp how much effort dang expends, when in reality, a whole class of people working in customer service roles expend roughly the same amount of effort. Sure, dang might be uniquely efficient, but the expenditure of effort is on the same order. I once witnessed a Delta employee in ATL process a queue of customers, all with issues regarding t…

> Posts like these, for me, highlight the class divide.

To start from Paul G. saying "Thank you dang, ..." and end up at "...(under)class cohort keeping capitalist dreams alive" seems like stretching a particular framework of thought past the point where it usefully describes people.

Re: Few people grasp the amount of effort Daniel Gackle expends running HN (2020)

#102

As dang is shadowbanning people, I cannot agree with many of the popular sentiments expressed. I think shadowbanning is unjust, and if is someone is violating the rules nonstop they should be made aware of it through notice and an actual ban.

I've seen dang warn people their conduct is bannable many times.

AFAIK shadowbanning on HN means your comments default to "dead", as if they had been flagged. You can see them if you enable "showdead" in your profile, and if people vouch for them, they can become visible again. See Terry Davis' comment history for examples (this is the only shadowbanned account I know of): https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=TerryADavis - if you look a few pages in, you'll see some live comments of him talking about the early days of Ticketmaster and such.

To me this seems like a better solution than simply kicking people out who are unable to uphold the minimum guidelines necessary to engage in reasonably civil discourse. What would you suggest as an alternative?

Re: Few people grasp the amount of effort Daniel Gackle expends running HN (2020)

#103
post #46

'sillysaurusx -- I respect your opinions. I know that I respect your opinions because you're able to use HackerNews as a bully pulpit to reach a very wide audience and I personally both enjoy and look forward to seeing your participation. I've often wished I had better opportunities to learn from you and always silently wish you well on your personal journey. I also see from your Twitter reply that you feel HN hasn't…

The one complaint is this: > He has had a habit of silencing some long-standing members of HN If anything, that shows excellent moderation skills. Everyone should abide by the same rules.

One thing I learned from moderating an internet community in the past: Some of the long-term users had become experts at skirting the rules. They had seen so many posts and watched so many other people get moderated that they learned how to walk right up to the line without explicitly crossing it.

Some times they'd become very good at baiting other people into breaking the rules. Or they would writing extremely inflammatory comments in a pseudo-cordial writing style that looked friendly/naïve but was actually crafted to incite a flame war.

There was a lot of "You should know better" admonishing these provocateur forum members, but for many the only solution was to remove them from the forum completely.

Re: Few people grasp the amount of effort Daniel Gackle expends running HN (2020)

#104

A lot of replies on twitter critique dang on moderating their comments. But in reality, I think this is a good thing. There are already enough near-total-free speech zones on the Internet (and we see how many of them turn out). It's far more personally interesting to me to see how a conversations in a space moderated above a certain threshold evolves.

I haven't seen such a zone in 20 years or so. Care to share a link?

Re: Few people grasp the amount of effort Daniel Gackle expends running HN (2020)

#105

'sillysaurusx -- I respect your opinions. I know that I respect your opinions because you're able to use HackerNews as a bully pulpit to reach a very wide audience and I personally both enjoy and look forward to seeing your participation. I've often wished I had better opportunities to learn from you and always silently wish you well on your personal journey. I also see from your Twitter reply that you feel HN hasn't…

I’m out of the loop.

Who is this person and why was he banned?

Re: Few people grasp the amount of effort Daniel Gackle expends running HN (2020)

#106

I agree with all the asspats for dang on the day-to-day moderation level. If anything I'd like to see more of a heavy hand from him. I've modded some moderately-sized Reddit subs and it was hell. However, in strategic terms, I think HN has failed to maintain a good comment signal-to-noise ratio over the past several years. For instance it used to be that "funny" or entertaining type of low-effort comments would be st…

disheartened, as usual, to see an insightful comment lurking nearer the bottom of the page than the top, while a bunch of throwaway fawnings sit above it[0]. i have a pet theory that there can only ever be about a dozen good comments on a thread, and hn usually does a terrible job surfacing them. the (poor) karma-to-tenure ratio you describe is certainly one of the mechanisms by which this goes wrong. i actually liked slashdot's voting mechanics the best of all the forums i've ever visited. it wasn't perfect, but did a better job at surfacing good comments.

i've actually been thinking about how to solve this problem lately, at least for myself. the hn api doesn't look like much fun to work with however.

[0]: that's not to say that i don't appreciate dang, i do, but it's cloying to say the least.

Re: Few people grasp the amount of effort Daniel Gackle expends running HN (2020)

#107
post #5

I'd like to think that more than a few people grasp this. He's some kind of machine - in the best, complimentary way. His replies to emails are succinct, helpful, educational, and still personable. No idea how he retains his equanimity across hundreds/thousands of interactions, mostly with strangers. IMO it's a worthwhile lesson (and a free one) to peruse his comment history: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=d…

Yep, dang is amazing.

Re: Few people grasp the amount of effort Daniel Gackle expends running HN (2020)

#108
post #71

Seems like a management problem when one employee is expending huge effort to keep the enterprise running.

Agree. HN is not a charity and it is most certainly profitable enough to be able to not have so much effort vested in one person (if that is the case that is).

I understand fully PG thanking him publicly for his effort and the pats on the back (by others here) but let's face it it's a job in the end and he is doing his job.

Re: Few people grasp the amount of effort Daniel Gackle expends running HN (2020)

#109
post #61
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The aforementioned replies: https://mobile.twitter.com/theshawwn/status/1282058054754799...

That's a tough cookie for sure but sillysauraus is not seeing the big picture. It is tragic that we don't have yummyfajitas' or michaelochurch's takes which went against the grain and were probably interesting in some ways, but they in the end shot themselves in the foot by delivering their message in odiously-scented wrappings. Frequently employing ad hominem attacks, calling women names, etc. quickly evaporates the…

That is just because most people leave when they don't like something. In a bad environment you would expect the majority of those who stay to still find the environment good and themselves rational, with only a few outspoken against it. It is a relatively basic concept in markets, sociology, biology, information systems and reasoning.

The person you and the comment next to me are talking about is not here to defend themselves. They are specifically not here to defend themselves because they aren't allowed to. The justification for them not being allowed to is because they talked badly about someone else. Yet, it is apparently accepted to talk badly about them.

Your are even saying that we shouldn't trust this person because they in your opnion engaged in ad hominem attacks. But by doing so you are arguably performing an ad hominem attack yourself. And while you can certainly make a meta argument against that it would be close enough for many not to touch it.

This is why many people leave. Not because it's the Internet. Most of us have been around that. But because it is bad version of it.

You might think this doesn't have real consequences so I will give you an example. Because of the environment on Hacker News there is a lack of successful Europeans. This in turn results in there being an overwhelming consensus that is less likely you make good amounts of money in Europe. But this often isn't the case if you know what to do. It is just that those who do either leave or stop talking about it. Which continues the existing narrative as the participants reality continues to match their opinions. While in reality their opinion may not really be supported.

An environment with one sided environment isn't harmless. It might actually give you a worse life. But the same argument as before also applies here. Those who appreciate this are the first to leave. Leaving those who stay blind to what is happening.

Re: Few people grasp the amount of effort Daniel Gackle expends running HN (2020)

#110
post #61
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The aforementioned replies: https://mobile.twitter.com/theshawwn/status/1282058054754799...

That's a tough cookie for sure but sillysauraus is not seeing the big picture. It is tragic that we don't have yummyfajitas' or michaelochurch's takes which went against the grain and were probably interesting in some ways, but they in the end shot themselves in the foot by delivering their message in odiously-scented wrappings. Frequently employing ad hominem attacks, calling women names, etc. quickly evaporates the…

And now every other fucking comment I see does this. So why not have them back?
Post reply on HN