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What one executive wishes they could tell employees about return-to-office plans

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Re: What one executive wishes they could tell employees about return-to-office plans

#31

Post by toomuchtodo »

RestlessMind wrote: post #30
toomuchtodo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

N=1. Colleagues are not my friends. We share a revenue source and common body of work, but my friends are outside of work for a reason. Under exceptional circumstances, a friendship bond that lasts beyond an employer might be established, but in my 20+ years in tech, it’s happened so few times I can count on one hand. And I prefer it that way.

I don’t think your parent commenter is talking about making “friends” at work. It came across as an environment with “friendly colleagues”, which is amazing to have and so far I haven’t seen those kind of work relations being built purely on Zoom.

Perhaps I’m just not seeing the benefit. You can absolutely have friendly, polite, cordial colleagues remote/over Zoom without being friends, no? In the decade I’ve been remote, across several orgs, this has been my experience. Friendly but not friends.

A friend is someone I can expect to be there when I ask for or need personal help (and vice versa), not someone who shares their beer or hobby preferences over a Zoom 1:1. Deep bonds are forged in meaningful shared struggle (see military bootcamp for an example, where you are broken down and built back up together), not ephemeral employment.

Re: What one executive wishes they could tell employees about return-to-office plans

#32

Post by RestlessMind »

malermeister wrote: post #15
RestlessMind wrote: post #10

From my first hand experience in managing teams, this article resonates well. The biggest problem my company sees is a low level of trust between team members now that a lot of the tenured engineers have left and new ones joined in a fully remote environment. More than half the team hasn’t met colleagues in person and the culture feels very transactional with shallow bonds, compared to old days when all of us were in…

> the culture feels very transactional Work should be transactional. It is a transaction. Labor is exchanged for money. Full remote frees us from all the bullshit and let's us focus on just doing the work we're getting paid for. "Deep culture" = bad work/life balance.

Nope. I spend one third of my life at work and I’d rather spend it with people I trust and I have a friendly relationship with (doesn’t mean they have to be my friends), rather than a robotic transactional environment. Based on my almost two decades of experience, the former environment is far more productive than later and I’d bet on companies fostering that one to win in the end.

Re: What one executive wishes they could tell employees about return-to-office plans

#33

Post by RestlessMind »

jleyank wrote: post #20

Middle management is struggling to show their value or even find something to do. The head shed is needed, and the workers are needed. Throw in tram leads to insulate the team from the bs and to keep them on the right path. And given that software development usually profits from peace and quiet, a bullpen or place where interruptions occur daily or worse is counterproductive. Let the marketeers or the like do their…

> And given that software development usually profits from peace and quiet

It seems you have never built any complex software which needed a lot of whiteboarding, intense design discussions with lots of nuances to hash out, lots of unanticipated tiny cases which were solved by a quick 2-min chat or other aspects which are far better addressed in person vs via Zoom.

Re: What one executive wishes they could tell employees about return-to-office plans

#34

Post by iainctduncan »

This read ok to me until the red flag about a worker wanting to have a set day off. If you're trying to build a remote culture with trust, that attitude should be exactly what you're looking for - straight up honest boundaries stated at the beginning when everyone can back out. This is way better than people having to prove their deservedness for time off or some other bullshit, or conversely, having them pretend to work while sneaking in time off. If the company has a problem with that, then I'd say they are trying to do this from the wrong head space, and yeah, it's not going to go well.

If I got a bad reaction from a potential employer over an honest conversation on what my and their expectations should be, I'd be out and on to the next.

Re: What one executive wishes they could tell employees about return-to-office plans

#36

Post by jleyank »

RestlessMind wrote: post #33
jleyank wrote: post #20

Middle management is struggling to show their value or even find something to do. The head shed is needed, and the workers are needed. Throw in tram leads to insulate the team from the bs and to keep them on the right path. And given that software development usually profits from peace and quiet, a bullpen or place where interruptions occur daily or worse is counterproductive. Let the marketeers or the like do their…

> And given that software development usually profits from peace and quiet It seems you have never built any complex software which needed a lot of whiteboarding, intense design discussions with lots of nuances to hash out, lots of unanticipated tiny cases which were solved by a quick 2-min chat or other aspects which are far better addressed in person vs via Zoom.

I’ve spent decades building such things. But it’s not something that’s done much after things are threshed out and work assigned. Fine, gather the clans to start things up, divvy up work, and get out of their way and let them work. Better?

Re: What one executive wishes they could tell employees about return-to-office plans

#37

Post by origin_path »

bunsenhoneydew wrote: post #12
origin_path wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But tech firms all give employees equity and are facing the same problems.

Certainly not all tech firms do this

Which ones don't? I never heard of such a thing.

Re: What one executive wishes they could tell employees about return-to-office plans

#38

Post by ilaksh »

It's amazing how little integration of online tooling there is even in the thought process.

The fact that they are remote or not actually says little about the communication patterns except that it is not physically face-to-face.

If mentorship is important then rather than relying on the physical distance between the new person's desk and the senior, you make it a policy that they need to do mentorship. And provide tools, structure and time for that.

If the senior or junior by virtue of the fact that they are not sitting in the same space cannot or will not work together, then either you have not got the tooling in place or you don't have control over your employees.

Learn to use internet software, set firm policies about communication and collaboration and availability to the degree it is actually necessary. If people don't comply then fire them.

The fact that they are physically in the same space or not is a minor detail for most of these jobs. Absolutely incredible how little understanding there is of that fact.

Learn to use an online white board, screen share, write an email, or open a video or voice chat.

Re: What one executive wishes they could tell employees about return-to-office plans

#39

Post by bluefirebrand »

RestlessMind wrote: post #33
jleyank wrote: post #20

Middle management is struggling to show their value or even find something to do. The head shed is needed, and the workers are needed. Throw in tram leads to insulate the team from the bs and to keep them on the right path. And given that software development usually profits from peace and quiet, a bullpen or place where interruptions occur daily or worse is counterproductive. Let the marketeers or the like do their…

> And given that software development usually profits from peace and quiet It seems you have never built any complex software which needed a lot of whiteboarding, intense design discussions with lots of nuances to hash out, lots of unanticipated tiny cases which were solved by a quick 2-min chat or other aspects which are far better addressed in person vs via Zoom.

> which are far better addressed in person vs via Zoom.

Can you elaborate on why you think this? It doesn't seem very obvious to me that this is the case. I've worked remote on a ton of projects and never really struggled to hash out these nuances via email, text message, video call, whatever.

Re: What one executive wishes they could tell employees about return-to-office plans

#40

Post by thdespou »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #31
RestlessMind wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think your parent commenter is talking about making “friends” at work. It came across as an environment with “friendly colleagues”, which is amazing to have and so far I haven’t seen those kind of work relations being built purely on Zoom.

Perhaps I’m just not seeing the benefit. You can absolutely have friendly, polite, cordial colleagues remote/over Zoom without being friends, no? In the decade I’ve been remote, across several orgs, this has been my experience. Friendly but not friends. A friend is someone I can expect to be there when I ask for or need personal help (and vice versa), not someone who shares their beer or hobby preferences over a Zoom…

Second that.If you want friends then join a meetup or a club where you can talk about your interests and common goals. Work colleagues share only one interest which is the success of the business which does not necessarily mean that you would be having the same feelings as with a true friendship.
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