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Few people grasp the amount of effort Daniel Gackle expends running HN (2020)

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Re: Few people grasp the amount of effort Daniel Gackle expends running HN (2020)

#61
post #55
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Context that I had to look up: sillysaurusx on HN is theshawwn on Twitter, whose replies to the submitted tweet this is a response to. (What makes that relative clause so hard to parse?) Meta: Is that an apostrophe as a username sigil? Where did it come from? Another instance: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17681886

The aforementioned replies: https://mobile.twitter.com/theshawwn/status/1282058054754799...

That's a tough cookie for sure but sillysauraus is not seeing the big picture.

It is tragic that we don't have yummyfajitas' or michaelochurch's takes which went against the grain and were probably interesting in some ways, but they in the end shot themselves in the foot by delivering their message in odiously-scented wrappings. Frequently employing ad hominem attacks, calling women names, etc. quickly evaporates the credibility of the person behind them, sours the culture of the community, and is just not a very good thing to do, irrespective of whatever validity or truth is being conveyed.

Re: Few people grasp the amount of effort Daniel Gackle expends running HN (2020)

#62

Apparently it takes an outage to prompt peak meta "HN on HN". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Know_What_You_Got_(Til...

As the saying goes, you never really appreciate what you’ve got[1] until it’s gone.

[1] (an unhealthy addiction to an orange website)

Re: Few people grasp the amount of effort Daniel Gackle expends running HN (2020)

#64
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly wonder sometimes how it’s physically possible to do what dang does, it seems like such an enormous and Sisyphean task. Sad to see twitter replies complaining about the moderation, because if it wasn’t for the moderation the quality here would be much lower, the moderation is the whole reason those people are attracted to participating here. Respect and many thanks indeed.

As someone that moderated a … pithy … community site, I am all too familiar with that type of complaint. I would regularly get called a “nazi,” because I would step into catfights, and break them up, or “nip them in the bud.” Once you’ve been doing it a while, you learn to smell trouble brewing, and it can escalate rapidly. Many folks chafe at restrictions, and they may actually be correct. They, themselves, may be e…

I only recall getting danged once and it was spot-on. I wasn’t acting like a full on flaming ass, but there was at least a glowing ember there and he phrased his response in a way that made it easy to accept.

Re: Few people grasp the amount of effort Daniel Gackle expends running HN (2020)

#65
post #61
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The aforementioned replies: https://mobile.twitter.com/theshawwn/status/1282058054754799...

That's a tough cookie for sure but sillysauraus is not seeing the big picture. It is tragic that we don't have yummyfajitas' or michaelochurch's takes which went against the grain and were probably interesting in some ways, but they in the end shot themselves in the foot by delivering their message in odiously-scented wrappings. Frequently employing ad hominem attacks, calling women names, etc. quickly evaporates the…

MOC was a toxic charlatan who posted exactly the kind of comments that have no place in a well-moderated forum.

Re: Few people grasp the amount of effort Daniel Gackle expends running HN (2020)

#66
I agree with all the asspats for dang on the day-to-day moderation level. If anything I'd like to see more of a heavy hand from him. I've modded some moderately-sized Reddit subs and it was hell.

However, in strategic terms, I think HN has failed to maintain a good comment signal-to-noise ratio over the past several years. For instance it used to be that "funny" or entertaining type of low-effort comments would be strongly discouraged with downvotes; at some point in the past few years it has become very common and... REminiscent of another social site that I'm not supposed to draw comparisons to due to HN guidelines.* Now it's common to see jokes and puns do quite well.

Fundamentally, to maintain a board's culture you need to encourage people to "lurk more" to get acclimated to the board's culture before participating. In other words you need to throttle/retard new users' participation somewhat.

I do recall at one point a push to increase commenting by removing comment average karma in user profiles. (Some) people used to withhold commenting unless they felt they had a real banger because it would throw off their ratio. It also used to be new user signups were only open occasionally rather than always available.

My hypothesis on where it went wrong is cost-free upvotes. Downvotes have always been gated behind a karma threshold, but any new account can upvote whatever it wants. Floods of new accounts thoughtlessly upvoting the types of comments they upvote on other sites will easily outpace the old timers' downvotes on that same content. Over time, this small change in karma dynamics shifts the board culture.

* Like the guideline wording, dang frequently brushes away this critique out of hand, but as someone who goes long periods between visiting HN regularly, it's very obvious to me. I think you could quantify it if you took random samples of HN comments from various time slices and noted the quantity of low-effort comments.

Re: Few people grasp the amount of effort Daniel Gackle expends running HN (2020)

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to think he's some kind of monk, a zen master of human forums, and a genuinely good person. At least any exchange I had with him or observed with all kinds of people have been full of humanity, while firm in his mission. I don't know how he does it, and I wish we'd celebrate him and people like him far more.

I posted a link elsewhere in this thread to this article [1] - The lonely work of moderating Hacker News (2019) - and you might like its author's insights/views, plus there are plentiful quotes from Dang and his colleague, Scott Bell. [edit to add: a comment in reply to this says that Scott no longer works at HN. Surely Dang can't be doing this solo nowadays?] [1] https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-silicon-va…

Thanks for this. It makes me hopeful that we can find people and a process to keep things civil and somehow engaging in such a forum.

Sure HN has its pains (and I'm an unconditional of the late n-gate site) but they don't come from moderation shenanigans.

I also appreciate the pedagogy I often see. Some participants here have never been actively moderated and dang takes the time to explain as if the moderated person was one of the 10000 of the day.

Re: Few people grasp the amount of effort Daniel Gackle expends running HN (2020)

#69
post #58

Posts like these, for me, highlight the class divide. PG thinks "few people" grasp how much effort dang expends, when in reality, a whole class of people working in customer service roles expend roughly the same amount of effort. Sure, dang might be uniquely efficient, but the expenditure of effort is on the same order. I once witnessed a Delta employee in ATL process a queue of customers, all with issues regarding t…

I'd say the tendency is to absolutely trivialise the work that goes into moderating online forums. It should be easy, right, you just click buttons while sitting at home in your pajamas, no? Well no, not really.

Re: Few people grasp the amount of effort Daniel Gackle expends running HN (2020)

#70
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly wonder sometimes how it’s physically possible to do what dang does, it seems like such an enormous and Sisyphean task. Sad to see twitter replies complaining about the moderation, because if it wasn’t for the moderation the quality here would be much lower, the moderation is the whole reason those people are attracted to participating here. Respect and many thanks indeed.

As someone that moderated a … pithy … community site, I am all too familiar with that type of complaint. I would regularly get called a “nazi,” because I would step into catfights, and break them up, or “nip them in the bud.” Once you’ve been doing it a while, you learn to smell trouble brewing, and it can escalate rapidly. Many folks chafe at restrictions, and they may actually be correct. They, themselves, may be e…

> Once you’ve been doing it a while, you learn to smell trouble brewing, and it can escalate rapidly.

I'm not actually proposing this, but that makes me curious how well that could be modeled via deep learning.

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