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Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

reuters.com

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Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#291

Post by seized »

nabaraz wrote: post #156
pj_mukh wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious though what the government could do about this pricing scheme here? Seems like the solution is to setup a bureaucracy to watch pricing and then micro-manage the situation whenever its tried? The ride-hailing services pulled this in various places around the world. Airlines in Canada did it as well. Feels like whack-a-mole.

Promote fair competition. Verizon tried to get in Canadian market in 2019ish but top three telecom formed a mafia and didn't let that happen. Same thing with Delta, would be a much better alternative to Air Canada.

Air Canada isn't perfect but Delta is junk. I have flown on both many times.

Many counties have their own airline. Canada shouldn't automatically give up our airline in favor of a US one, because the US one wants in.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#292

Post by refurb »

pid-1 wrote: post #103
tomComb wrote: post #31

People in other countries probably don't understand just how powerful - and depended upon - the big telecoms are here in Canada. They have no presence outside the country - they are so bloated and inefficient they couldn't compete - but they are omnipresent here. There are lots of people who depend on Rogers for home Internet, home phone, mobile phone, TV, and home security, not to mention business services that cons…

Isn't that true in most countries? Is there any place in the world that can claim to have a diverse, competitive Telco market?

Singapore does a decent job. I was paying $10/month for a 10GB mobile plan.

There are 5 different mobile providers in Singapore: Singtel, Starhub, M1, MyRepublic, ViewQwest and WhizComms.

Many of them also do fiber broadband. Some government body owns the infrastructure and the providers provide the connection to the internet. There are 5 providers as well.

I was paying $50/month for 1GB fiber and I paid more since I did a shorter term plan. If you buy in for 2 years, it's can be $35/month.

And this is in a country of 5.5M people.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#293

Post by Sanzig »

pj_mukh wrote: post #152
UkrainianJew wrote: post #121

The utterly inefficient and overpriced Canadian telecoms exist only because we allow one specific behavior: 1. A new local player comes to town, builds their own infrastructure (e.g. connects one building to fiber) and starts offering competitive service. 2. Rogers/Shaw/Bell/Telus immediately offer better terms for the residents of that building. 3. The competitor runs out of money and leaves. 4. The telecoms revert…

Curious though what the government could do about this pricing scheme here? Seems like the solution is to setup a bureaucracy to watch pricing and then micro-manage the situation whenever its tried? The ride-hailing services pulled this in various places around the world. Airlines in Canada did it as well. Feels like whack-a-mole.

The most straightforward solution would be to require the telecoms submit pricing tables to the regulator and force them to stick to them. If they want to make a change, they have to do it for the whole region, not just the area where small-time competitors have installed new service.

Price transparency in general is a huge issue with Canadian telecoms, it's well known that it's a "complaint based system" with the big three. They'll hook you with an introductory rate and then start jacking up the prices after a year or two. The usual dance is you go to one of the other big telecoms and get a quote for their introductory rate, and then go back to yours and threaten to leave unless it's matched. It's a pretty awful system that requires people to know how to navigate it. Most don't, so after their intro period expires they just get gouged. My father in law is paying almost $200 a month for internet and TV.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#294

Post by tempestn »

folkrav wrote: post #278
ryanbrunner wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how many of them would actually buy them though. There's been attempts at mobile providers, sometimes offering prices that the big telcos won't try to match even to flood them out, and they tend to wither away.

Most of the smaller providers have either been acquired (e.g. Public Mobile) or downright always been run by the larger telcos (e.g. Virgin Mobile). For both mobile and ISPs, very few companies actually own the infrastructure, most are just leasing bandwidth.

And since you can't count on them to stick around, it's not worth it for many of us to go through the hassle of switching only to have to switch again a year or three later when the company goes under. Plus the risk of poor service compared to the known mediocre service you get from the major telcos.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#295

Post by tempestn »

dredmorbius wrote: post #115
amscanne wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a lot of experience in both places. Americans may think think they do, but I don’t think so. As bad as Comcast and others are in the USA, I have found them to be far more efficient and competitive than Rogers or Bell in Canada. Same for banks in Canada. It’s unbelievable what they do and get away with. And airlines. Rather, Airline. I believe there’s a cultural element here: Canadians are more risk adverse and…

New Zealand often seems like a toy country with one of everything. There's the One Bank, the One Telecom, the One Airline. Not ... exactly. But effectively, yes. A combination of a tiny population (5.1 millions) and a long way from nowhere (roughly 3,200 km / 2,000 mi from Sydney). Australia and Canada already have issues from their own small scale (and vast land areas). NZ takes it up a notch.

On the other hand it made it quite an enviable place for much of a global pandemic.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#296

Post by tra3 »

jonny_eh wrote: post #171
tra3 wrote: post #32

Staying with the inlaws that use Rogers' reseller for wired internet. Using Fido for mobile internet access (also by Rogers). Zero internet. It's wild to discover how reliant I am on the internet: - Can't get around this city (no waze, gmaps). - Can't figure out what's going on (AM radio is non stop commercials) - Can't figure out where we might get some internet (maybe WeWork somewhere? How do you find one without i…

I'm genuinely curious now how you access HN.

Drove around for 2 hours to see if another cell might be up, nope. Stopped a test stop that had internet. Looks like Fido is back up, but the isp is still down.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#297

Post by Sunspark »

tenpies wrote: post #231
whynotmaybe wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not possible to pay with debit card in Canada because Interac is down, because Rogers is down. Many atm across the country aren't working. It's not just Rogers' client who are impacted, the whole banking ecosystem is impacted. Even rumors that Costco can only accept cash, the Capital One Mastercard network might be down. I don't see how Rogers could keep quiet on this, unless it's from some malicious actor.

> I don't see how Rogers could keep quiet on this My sweet summer child, you have no seen how meek and docile Canadians are. They'll take a page from the Federal Liberals, spout a bunch of unrelated platitudes and nothingness, and pretend nothing happened. The oligarchs control Canada and the Federal Liberals are just a finger in their hand. There will be no inquiry from regulators - what's more - they'll rubber stam…

I would say if you want to engage in the process of dialogue, don't bring a large cache of firearms with you while blocking an international border crossing.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-protest-blocka...

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#298

Post by tempestn »

kelseydh wrote: post #276
ryanbrunner wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We also have national and provincial parks, Crown land is different. A national park is maintained for visitors and for nature, crown land is closer to unused or unclaimed land, generally nothing is done with it unless it's sold off. You are free to camp on crown land, but it's nothing like going to a park, it's full on wilderness camping with no amenities, sites, or anything else.

My point is, Canadians think of government land philosophically as something that is not theirs, but rather, owned by the crown -- the Queen. While Americans see public land as their shared land. This mentality penetrates into many of the differences between the two countries in how they govern.

I somewhat agree with your main point, but I don't think most Canadians associate the "Crown" as in Crown Land or Crown Corporations with the literal monarchy. Rather it's just a synonym for the (Canadian Federal) government. Most Canadians don't tend to think about the monarchy much at all. (Certainly the Canadian Governor General, theoretically the Queen's representative as head of state, would never be expected to actually take instruction from the Queen.)

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#299

Post by randomdata »

nabaraz wrote: post #156
pj_mukh wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious though what the government could do about this pricing scheme here? Seems like the solution is to setup a bureaucracy to watch pricing and then micro-manage the situation whenever its tried? The ride-hailing services pulled this in various places around the world. Airlines in Canada did it as well. Feels like whack-a-mole.

Promote fair competition. Verizon tried to get in Canadian market in 2019ish but top three telecom formed a mafia and didn't let that happen. Same thing with Delta, would be a much better alternative to Air Canada.

Verizon was already in the Canadian market once before, holding a sizeable stake in Telus. I would say that they, along with AT&T owning a stake in Rogers during the same period, and of course AT&T also establishing Bell Canada earlier, are responsible for the present state of telecom in Canada. There were a number of other players who were trying to compete, but is wasn't easy going up against the offspring of the American behemoths.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#300

Post by bruce511 »

bshipp wrote: post #265
FpUser wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use 1Gbps symmetric Bell fiber small business package which includes static IP. Pay $129/month and generally happy. Static IP is important as I host some stuff right in my basement. You got me curious with this Beanfield. It is indeed $50 for 1Gbps symmetric (no static IP of course) but when I looked at their business package it is $300 for the same speed. Static IP is extra. I wonder what does such a big differenc…

If i had to guess maybe it is a guaranteed 1Gps slot? It does seem like an excessive markup.

"markup" is one way to price things, but not necessarily the best way.

A better way, and likely the thing in play here, is to price according to a mix of value provided, and the ability of the market to pay.

If you are spread enough this will result in some markets paying effectively a large markup, and done a much smaller markup, and some, potentially, less than cost.

The reason the package costs $300 is because that is what the market will bear, and the utility to the customer exceeds the value of that cash.

Incidentally that value may also be in support etc.

In summary, markup is one of the least effective pricing methodologies, and invariably leaves a lot of money on the table.

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