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Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

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Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#261

Post by kthejoker2 »

cowtools wrote: post #222
kadoban wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The root cause of gun violence is societal issues, not the guns themselves. Solve those societal issues (hard, and likely almost intractable unfortunately), or gun violence will persist. We have what, near 200 examples of other countries who are able to do better? It's almost like it doesn't require a society with no (vaguely alluded to) issues to prevent many gun crimes and mass shootings, and it's more about bein…

[flagged]

Whatever they do in those in those other 200 countries are clearly both common and sensible.

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#262

Post by rayiner »

cute_boi wrote: post #163
chii wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take is that gun violence has several different categories, and gun control only helps some of them (such as accidental, or emotional, spur of the moment shootings), but doesn't prevent any premeditated ones. It will not stop people like the one at 4th july, nor those school shootings. Unless the gun control laws completely outlaw civilians owning guns - which i dont think will fly. The root cause of gun violence…

I am sorry, but it will stop if guns are banned for ordinary people. How many school shootings happen in China or India? I am taking china and india because they are populous and don't have gun distributed freely like in US. The fact is quantity matters in such cases. Having 1 incidence vs 10 or 20 is a huge difference.

> I am sorry, but it will stop if guns are banned for ordinary people. How many school shootings happen in China or India?

I don’t know about school shootings, but guns are banned in Puerto Rico and the island has 4 times the homicide rate of the US and 6 times the homicide rate of India. Pakistan has way more guns than most Latin American countries but much lower homicide rates.

Homicide rates in the new world have been vastly higher than in Europe and Asia for hundreds of years, long before modern gun control. At the turn of the 20th century, the homicide rate in the US was 10x higher than the UK: https://quod.lib.umich.edu/h/humfig/images/11217607.0002.206...

Pop quiz: from the chart of homicide rates in the UK, tell me when the major gun control legislation happened.

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#263

Post by dirtyid »

anshumankmr wrote: post #180
anshumankmr wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't read an in depth dive of Japan's internal politics but he helped my country with some major investments, which has in turn helped some of my close relatives get good well paying jobs. Also, generally I have a lot of respect for Japanese people in general due to having met and worked with some people from there.

That being said his historical revisionism seems like a damn shame. I personally didn't know about that. However, I don't take all of the claims made by Jacobin seriously. Even here it tries to paint Japan trying to create it's own army as a bad thing when it is clearly in response to territorial aggressiveness from China.

> it is clearly in response to territorial aggressiveness from China

Abe's been trying to re-militarize JP since his first term in mid 2000s, long before PRC military modernization began. You suggest he's precient, but history + his associations/controversies suggest a revisionist national hawk who loves his war criminals that understands Japan has territorial issues with everyone of her maritime neighbours and needs a proper non-pacifist military for "self-defense". No one in the west seems like to discuss that Japan, a loser of WW2 who should have her territories prescribed via treaty, has shown zero ability to address any of her linger disputes, including SCS tier EEZ drama (Okinotorishima). At end of day, it's within JP self interest to re-militarize, but let's not pretend Abe/LDP's questionable attachment to revisionsm aren't responsible for causing much of the maritime drama in the region.

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#264

Post by hintymad »

wirthjason wrote: post #84

And after debating gun violence all week with my friends in the wake of the 4th of July shooting in Highland Park I made an example of Japan and it’s low gun violence. Now this happens. Crazy stuff still happens in Japan but it’s usually a knife or ax. But guns and Abe are on another level.

> I made an example of Japan and it’s low gun violence. Now this happens.

I think your argument still holds. Japanese politicians usually have really relaxed security details partly because it's hard to get a gun in Japan. This kind of shooting is an exception, not a norm.

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#265

Post by widjit »

cowtools wrote: post #192
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the school shootings, at least, there is always some unhinged person behind it. Deeper mental health checks before purchasing a gun (like as is required in Germany) could be very useful. Also, rules in place that your gun is stored securely in a safe, and spot checks to verify such (again, in Germany) can help with guns making their way into other people’s hands either by being given or by being taken. A friend of…

That is a slippery slope to every state having restrictive NY-like gun laws. I don't care about legal or cultural precedent in germany or the EU. This isn't germany. The US plays a far more important role in global affairs, and as such must take more dramatic measures to prevent it from falling into the hands of some regime, those measures include the right to bear arms as well as freedom of speech and freedom of rel…

a slippery slope to significantly reduced gun deaths

oh no

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#266

Post by seanmcdirmid »

pupppet wrote: post #259
cowtools wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a slippery slope to every state having restrictive NY-like gun laws. I don't care about legal or cultural precedent in germany or the EU. This isn't germany. The US plays a far more important role in global affairs, and as such must take more dramatic measures to prevent it from falling into the hands of some regime, those measures include the right to bear arms as well as freedom of speech and freedom of rel…

It explains so much that many Americans are still dreaming of a Red Dawn scenario. Sorry pal, it'll be a bright flash and then no more. Your guns aren't going to do shit.

The sad part is that it’s much more likely Americans would turn their guns on each other in some sort of civil war type situation; eg the Democrats/Republicans think the Republicans/Democrats stole the election, and an armed uprising is the only way to give power back to the right party.

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#267

Post by daenz »

King-Aaron wrote: post #256
vlovich123 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not how gun buy back programs work. Hint they don’t and never have. It’s the same as what happened to that town that tried to solve their rat problem by paying people to bring rat heads. Some enterprising townsfolk started breeding rats.

You're deeply wrong about that. Gun buybacks have worked and do work everywhere that they've been conducted.

It's not a buyback since the government never owned it. It's coerced confiscation.

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#268

Post by sofixa »

cowtools wrote: post #192
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the school shootings, at least, there is always some unhinged person behind it. Deeper mental health checks before purchasing a gun (like as is required in Germany) could be very useful. Also, rules in place that your gun is stored securely in a safe, and spot checks to verify such (again, in Germany) can help with guns making their way into other people’s hands either by being given or by being taken. A friend of…

That is a slippery slope to every state having restrictive NY-like gun laws. I don't care about legal or cultural precedent in germany or the EU. This isn't germany. The US plays a far more important role in global affairs, and as such must take more dramatic measures to prevent it from falling into the hands of some regime, those measures include the right to bear arms as well as freedom of speech and freedom of rel…

> and as such must take more dramatic measures to prevent it from falling into the hands of some regime

Yet funnily when that was in the process of happening (Trump's failed coup attempt) not only were there no "good guys with guns" against the regime, all the guys with the guns were for the regime trying to make a coup.

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#269

Post by aksss »

podiki wrote: post #14

Wow, especially in a country like Japan with so few guns and gun violence, this is especially shocking.

Guns are very primitive tech by today’s standards. Someone who has crossed ethical/moral hurdles of deciding to take other peoples’ lives will see prohibition as a speed bump.

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#270

Post by cowtools »

presentation wrote: post #250
cowtools wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a slippery slope to every state having restrictive NY-like gun laws. I don't care about legal or cultural precedent in germany or the EU. This isn't germany. The US plays a far more important role in global affairs, and as such must take more dramatic measures to prevent it from falling into the hands of some regime, those measures include the right to bear arms as well as freedom of speech and freedom of rel…

Lol the fact that random people have guns has nothing to do with US dominance, and it’s not random people with guns that will protect the US in an exceedingly unlikely armed conflict on US soil, it’s the army - which has no shortage of funding. Unless you’re saying that random armed people are going to defend against a coup from our own army - doubtful. Hypothetical “defense” at what cost? Mass shootings every week i…

>Lol the fact that random people have guns has nothing to do with US dominance

It's no laughing matter. It has more to do than you might think.

>Unless you’re saying that random armed people are going to defend against a coup from our own army - doubtful

Think again.

>Hypothetical “defense” at what cost? Mass shootings every week is worth it?

Yes. Those who trade their fundamental freedoms for a little greater safety will eventually have neither.

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