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Give up GitHub: The time has come

sfconservancy.org

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Re: Give up GitHub: The time has come

#581
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to teach a coding bootcamp. I had over 100 students over about 2 years, and ran into this constantly despite my best effort to explain that git != github from day one. We even did an exercise where we just used git locally first and then later (on a different day) showed how you can push to github. It didn't seem to matter. People just decided that git = github and couldn't let go of that.

With students you ran into this? I'm surprised that at a coding bootcamp students would already have some idea of git ... at all.

Most didn't. That's my point exactly. Even though I introduced them to git, and then later github, AND I was aware of the problem and tried to ensure they wouldn't conflate the two. It still happened.

Re: Give up GitHub: The time has come

#582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, because that was the substantive point about your company, its business model, and its relationship to the FOSS community that was made in the article. Not.

Publishing wrong information is wrong.

So is publishing technically correct but severely misleading information.

Re: Give up GitHub: The time has come

#583
post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GitHub seems to think it is copyrightable, personally I doubt it is, simply because a human didn't create it and the process it was created by was automatic with no creativity.

Well, if the entire thing was generated, then no (according to the first link I posted above), since it was not produced by a human. However, no useful program is going to be entirely written by an AI, so any real program would have quite a lot of user input (I regularly will take what copilot suggests and then tweak it to what I specifically want). And then, yeah, it's copyrightable. Also, there's no way for anyone…

Here's the kicker: your modified code snippet may still not be copyrightable if it's generic enough that everyone would do it in a similar manner.

Just as much as a hero riding off into the sunset is not copyrightable in a movie script. However, a hero riding off into the sunset with bananas in the pistol holsters would be.

This is what I would want to hear more about when discussing if Copilot violates copyright.

Re: Give up GitHub: The time has come

#584
post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's "nebulous" about having your chosen license for your project ignored – in practice, rescinded – when it's uploaded to GitHub by someone who may or may not be you?

Then find that someone and deal with them.

There's two parties to that: the uploader, and GitHub. I've already found one of them.

Re: Give up GitHub: The time has come

#585

As a leader of a FOSS project that is on github, and migrated off of sourceforge because SVN and email patches were not scaling - I'm a bit confused by this article. Co-pilot has issues, ergo github is going the way of sourceforge, and so now we must abandon github? Do I have that reasoning correct? We need to: - migrate the bug queue - have all links in commit history break - application integration with githib for…

> I'm a bit confused by this article. Obviously. > Co-pilot has issues, ergo github is going the way of sourceforge, and so now we must abandon github? Do I have that reasoning correct? No, you don't. If you had actually read the whole article[1], you would have noticed that they also listed several other issues which far predate Copilot. ___ [1]: You need to correct this part of the guidelines, dang. Some times -- l…

TL;DR: The rest of the article is vacuous, the list of other reasons is a link of bothersome but not compelling other reasons. In sum, it's not a compelling argument to give up github. I disagree that the correct course of action based on the arguments presented would be to boycott Github rather than take any of course of action that would lobby them to change.

If this is just fucking wrong, I wonder about the implication. Would you say, I am just fucking right? I would be careful whenever having any such conviction. If I were already a hater of github, this article would have resonated with me a lot more. Perhaps there is some kool-aid drinking happening here? Maybe not and everything is totally reason to abandon Github as a hosting platform.

> you would have noticed that they also listed several other issues which far predate Copilot.

I don't quite see that list. I do see this article as quite focused on co-pilot. Though, I do see this:

> There are so many good reasons to give up on GitHub, and we list the major ones on our Give Up On GitHub site. We were already considering this action ourselves for some time, but last week's event showed that this action is overdue.

Which links to this https://sfconservancy.org/GiveUpGitHub/ (I'll point out here, linking to a list is different from listing the other points, so.. 'fucking right?')

Re-capping that list from sfconservancy: (1) co-pilot (2) contracts with ice (3) githubs hosting code itself is not FOSS (4) no self-hosting with github code options (again, github hosting is itself not FOSS) (5) work to discredit copyleft (6) wholly owned by MSFT

In this article, it essentially says that co-pilot was the last straw, and a decisively large one at that. So my response is still, this is the last straw where we need to abandon github?

If you are fully vested in the other reasons, then I think that this article would be preaching to the choir.

For me, points 1-6 are bothersome, but still just 2s and 4s on the 1-10 scale of fire alarms. My personal take on this list:

(1) co-pilot: seems problematic, perhaps github can fix it. Maybe a better solution is to lobby github first before doing a cancel campaign

(2) ice contracts: this is bothersome; but I can see how it could be a bit complicated given ownership by MSFT and the complexity of government contracts. It is bothersome though.

(3) closed source: I don't put a lot of weight to this criticism. Just because I can't run Githubs code for myself.. I mostly shrug. Yes, I'd prefer for it to be open source too, but I respect there are various for-profit models out there (and holy-hell I wish I was payed market-rate for FOSS work).

(4) no self-hosting option: Seems like the same point as (3)

(5) CEO leadership discrediting copyleft: bothersome, but without concrete examples, for me it is not fully substantive and just bothersome (but not major, like, wow, they are shutting down FOSS projects, or aiding in getting them taken down by ginning up BS charges, etc..). So, yes, the CEOs of Github were at times discouraging to copyleft. Are they evil incarnate here where those bad actors needs to spurn everything Github? Did the CEOs of Github personally oversee any FOSS projects being sued, or made into non-FOSS? Did they personally increase the cost on FOSS?

(6) owned by MSFT: big companies are big companies and they are really hard to avoid completely... MSFT has had a big culture shift in the last 5, 10 and 15 years. It's not the same company it once was. That is not to say this is not a concern. Though, until I have specifics around how/why I thnk MSFT has become actively evil, this remains just a notable concern.

> If you had actually read the whole article[1]

Apologies for seeming like I only commented on the first paragraph. A lot of the article seems vacuous to me and generally trying to gin up a mountain out of what might just be a gnarly hill.

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