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Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

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Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#121

Post by rufus_foreman »

roody15 wrote: post #29

I am a bit older and have worked in IT now for almost 2 decades. (44 years old) I honestly think the general premise here holds true and perhaps applies to many of us here in computed related occupations. It seems many of us focused on STEM STEM STEM or COMPUTERS COMPUTERS COMPUTERS in education but perhaps are emotionally infantile to an extent. How many of us write programs, support infrastructure, design gadgets ……

>> How many of us work countless hours for companies whose missions we don’t perhaps even agree with

I did that for many years both as a factory worker and as a software developer. I don't need to spend much time pondering why I act the way I do.

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#122

Post by bcoughlan »

phs318u wrote: post #48
roody15 wrote: post #29

I am a bit older and have worked in IT now for almost 2 decades. (44 years old) I honestly think the general premise here holds true and perhaps applies to many of us here in computed related occupations. It seems many of us focused on STEM STEM STEM or COMPUTERS COMPUTERS COMPUTERS in education but perhaps are emotionally infantile to an extent. How many of us write programs, support infrastructure, design gadgets ……

I used to worry about being "successful" until I had an epiphany triggered by my father's death. Do you want to know what success is? Visualise the day of your funeral. Who is there? Are they sad, devastated, in tears? Are they looking at their watch or relieved you're finally gone? What does it say on your headstone? "Here lies roody15. Beloved father, husband, son. Forever in our hearts" Or will it say, "Here lies…

It reminds me of something David Brooks said, that we all have both "resume virtues" and "eulogy virtues".

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#123

Post by [deleted] »

scns wrote: post #91
yakak wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it depends what you mean by better person. How would being a plumber or electrician make you a better person? Given jobs in a "healthy" economic system, I don't think anyone should do anything if their only goal is to show they improved society through their work. What do we know about the nuns that would have filled mother Teresa roles if she had not displaced them? When you are done working for income, if y…

Can we please stop usin Mother Theresa as an example of a good person? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Mother_Teresa?wpr...

[deleted]

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#124

Post by sn9 »

zupatol wrote: post #75
emmelaich wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoa, I thought > Beloved father, husband, son. Forever in our hearts" was brutally generic but then ... > He was a good employee Which is worse than "he was a decent man" [0]. Oof. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Stone_(character)

"He was a decent man" sounds like a worthy ambition. I'd be proud of "He wasn't a dick".

I'd rather be defined by my virtues than by the absence of flaws.

A hermit in a cave could similarly be described, but I think any life that makes a positive impact, however small or large, requires something more.

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#125

Post by phs318u »

mythrwy wrote: post #103
phs318u wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to worry about being "successful" until I had an epiphany triggered by my father's death. Do you want to know what success is? Visualise the day of your funeral. Who is there? Are they sad, devastated, in tears? Are they looking at their watch or relieved you're finally gone? What does it say on your headstone? "Here lies roody15. Beloved father, husband, son. Forever in our hearts" Or will it say, "Here lies…

This is true, but when I'm dead I won't be there, so what people say isn't that relevant. However, if I don't put in the hours now, I might get to enjoy life less because I'll have less resources to do so. (Within reason of course, life really does come first. But work is still important). People have odd ideas about their amazing historical impact. The way people will remember them, being "on the right side of histo…

I think you've missed my point. It's not about what they say. What they say is a reflection of the impact you've had on their lives. It isn't about leaving behind a legacy of "historical impact". The exercise is meant to cause you to reflect on what behaviours, what actions are likely to leave such positive impacts on others that they feel that way. Focusing solely on material success is unlikely to result in that kind of positive impact. If there's any legacy at all, its in that people may wish to emulate your best behaviours as a result of your impact.

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#126

Post by phs318u »

burrows wrote: post #104
phs318u wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to worry about being "successful" until I had an epiphany triggered by my father's death. Do you want to know what success is? Visualise the day of your funeral. Who is there? Are they sad, devastated, in tears? Are they looking at their watch or relieved you're finally gone? What does it say on your headstone? "Here lies roody15. Beloved father, husband, son. Forever in our hearts" Or will it say, "Here lies…

> Do you want to know what success is? You’re not describing what success “is”. You are just describing something then calling it “success”. The whole setup is like bad Platonic philosophy. Socrates: what is success? Useful idiot: Money! Socrates: Ah, but will your money miss you after you die? Useful idiot: Wow! Deep!

The exercise is not about whether you'll be missed afterwards. Its to elicit the reflection on "What behaviour in my life would result in that effect?" It's about reflecting on what it takes to be a good person - and then living accordingly. You may be entirely alone in this world, parents dead, no siblings, no partner, no children and not even friends - but you can still perform this thought exercise and live accordingly.

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#128

Post by burrows »

phs318u wrote: post #126
burrows wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you want to know what success is? You’re not describing what success “is”. You are just describing something then calling it “success”. The whole setup is like bad Platonic philosophy. Socrates: what is success? Useful idiot: Money! Socrates: Ah, but will your money miss you after you die? Useful idiot: Wow! Deep!

The exercise is not about whether you'll be missed afterwards. Its to elicit the reflection on "What behaviour in my life would result in that effect?" It's about reflecting on what it takes to be a good person - and then living accordingly. You may be entirely alone in this world, parents dead, no siblings, no partner, no children and not even friends - but you can still perform this thought exercise and live accord…

> It's about reflecting on what it takes to be a good person

I don’t think invoking the usually incoherently used word “good” is very helpful.

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#129

Post by mensetmanusman »

nic_wilson wrote: post #92
mensetmanusman wrote: post #90

Our family is outside the norm in practicing millennia old religious traditions that include daily practice of gratitude and forgiveness. I have found it to be amazingly useful for passing down ‘emotional intelligence’ and existential maturity to the next generation (and also keeping everything in life in perspective). This essay seems to suggest that the secular world lacks these practices for passing down EI, becau…

If you don’t mind sharing, I’d be curious what specific traditions you practice?

For example, nightly family prayer where everyone is given the opportunity to contemplate/share what they are grateful for that day. Also a time set aside to practice saying sorry/reconciliation. Contemplating the beatitudes, etc.

Amazingly fruitful practice that only takes 15 min or so. By the time the kids graduate from the home, they are quite mentally/emotionally prepared for the world from the practice :)

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#130

Post by phs318u »

burrows wrote: post #128
phs318u wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The exercise is not about whether you'll be missed afterwards. Its to elicit the reflection on "What behaviour in my life would result in that effect?" It's about reflecting on what it takes to be a good person - and then living accordingly. You may be entirely alone in this world, parents dead, no siblings, no partner, no children and not even friends - but you can still perform this thought exercise and live accord…

> It's about reflecting on what it takes to be a good person I don’t think invoking the usually incoherently used word “good” is very helpful.

If "good" is too hard to define, maybe "asshole" is less so? In which case, be the opposite of an asshole.
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