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Twitter Layoff Started Today

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Re: Twitter Layoff Started Today

#141

Post by TimPC »

throwaway5959 wrote: post #5
stocknoob wrote: post #2

“ many of these folks won’t be able to sell the shares they earned. The money they need pay bills and keep them afloat if and until they get new employment. When severance ends, that’s it.” It’s Twitter’s responsibility to not only offer severance, but make sure employees keep an emergency fund?

Seriously. I wouldn’t be surprised if the lowest total comp was in excess of $200k/year. If you can’t have 6 months in cash sitting in a high yield savings account on that, there’s no amount of severance that will help you.

Honestly if you’re paying a mortgage at current rates, 6 months income is an excessive amount to hold out. Assuming that’s $100k, you’re paying somewhere around $5600/year by not paying down your mortgage more aggressively.

I have a lot of sympathy for someone who’s plan for savings was “if I get fired I can”: (1) use my severance money (2) sell my stock (3) get a loan against my home

Only blackout periods blocked (2) and falling home prices blocked (3).

Re: Twitter Layoff Started Today

#142

Post by forgot_old_user »

madeofpalk wrote: post #129
jpollock wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people are extended enough that their stock is considered part of their compensation for buying a house. I know many people that sell all of their stock every month to make sure they have enough to live in the Bay Area. What's the mortgage on a USD$2m 1300sqft house? Looks to be $11k/mo? So, total comp should be at least US$400k to be considered affordable. Using South Bay, I don't know where a Twitter engineer…

Seems unwise. You can always be fired or otherwise lose your job.

cant that be said about buying a home anywhere?

Re: Twitter Layoff Started Today

#143

Post by willcipriano »

etchalon wrote: post #88
willcipriano wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what you call someone with 1.5 million worth of assets? A millionaire. They will live, even if they have to move to "flyover country".

If they have a mortgage, they don't have 1.5M in assets. They have 1.5M in debt.

They would've put at least 150k down wouldn't they? This also assumes they just moved in. If you have a 1.5 million dollar home in SF today you likely bought it for less than that at some point in the past. These people have net worths that would allow them to buy a nice house, almost anywhere else on the planet for cash.

Re: Twitter Layoff Started Today

#144

Post by mathgladiator »

jpollock wrote: post #127
stocknoob wrote: post #2

“ many of these folks won’t be able to sell the shares they earned. The money they need pay bills and keep them afloat if and until they get new employment. When severance ends, that’s it.” It’s Twitter’s responsibility to not only offer severance, but make sure employees keep an emergency fund?

Many people are extended enough that their stock is considered part of their compensation for buying a house. I know many people that sell all of their stock every month to make sure they have enough to live in the Bay Area. What's the mortgage on a USD$2m 1300sqft house? Looks to be $11k/mo? So, total comp should be at least US$400k to be considered affordable. Using South Bay, I don't know where a Twitter engineer…

Holy shit, seems like bad personal finance. I never consider stock in my budget, how did this come to be?

Re: Twitter Layoff Started Today

#145

Post by solardev »

vorpalhex wrote: post #97
hughesjj wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't and Shouldn't are different things. Also, new hires exist. Not everyone has had time to actually accumulate wealth from their compensation. Not everyone was taught financial literacy before being dumped into a high stress job. Not everyone is in good health. I think sympathy and compassion are fine ideals to hold for any of our working class cohort.

I think treating our fellow humans like humans is more valuable than assuming they aren't capable of basic finance. Put another way, people will behave as you treat them. Treat them like they are fools who can't do finances and they will behave that way. Expect them to do basic financial behavior and they will. We literally make financial literacy courses free, online, without any need to even sign up. They will teac…

As someone who is financially illiterate, but doesn't have the time or knowhow to separate the good ones from all the spam out there... can you recommend any good courses?

Re: Twitter Layoff Started Today

#146

Post by phillipcarter »

throwaway5959 wrote: post #5
stocknoob wrote: post #2

“ many of these folks won’t be able to sell the shares they earned. The money they need pay bills and keep them afloat if and until they get new employment. When severance ends, that’s it.” It’s Twitter’s responsibility to not only offer severance, but make sure employees keep an emergency fund?

Seriously. I wouldn’t be surprised if the lowest total comp was in excess of $200k/year. If you can’t have 6 months in cash sitting in a high yield savings account on that, there’s no amount of severance that will help you.

Hoo boy, where to begin with this one. You do realize that there are people who broke into tech despite coming from extremely poor backgrounds, and use most of their take-home money to support their families, right? Or students with massive student loan debts that they are currently paying down? Or even just people from median financial backgrounds but have to support their families in a high CoL area?

Re: Twitter Layoff Started Today

#147

Post by frumper »

falcolas wrote: post #57
throwaway5959 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. I wouldn’t be surprised if the lowest total comp was in excess of $200k/year. If you can’t have 6 months in cash sitting in a high yield savings account on that, there’s no amount of severance that will help you.

Let's pretend some of these SF twitter employees have families. $4k in rent monthly, 4k in general living expenses (these are based off median figures available publicly) A bit over $96k in living costs. Assuming that $200k in total comp includes about 25% in stock (based off publicly reported comp packages for twitter employees), and a combined state/federal 35% tax rate... They have no spare money to save without a…

Most of your pay isn’t taxed at 35%. General expenses sound way too high if you’re excluding shelter and have a full time at home parent. This hypothetical Twitter employee family is burning money on something instead of saving.

Re: Twitter Layoff Started Today

#148

Post by jrockway »

jpollock wrote: post #127
stocknoob wrote: post #2

“ many of these folks won’t be able to sell the shares they earned. The money they need pay bills and keep them afloat if and until they get new employment. When severance ends, that’s it.” It’s Twitter’s responsibility to not only offer severance, but make sure employees keep an emergency fund?

Many people are extended enough that their stock is considered part of their compensation for buying a house. I know many people that sell all of their stock every month to make sure they have enough to live in the Bay Area. What's the mortgage on a USD$2m 1300sqft house? Looks to be $11k/mo? So, total comp should be at least US$400k to be considered affordable. Using South Bay, I don't know where a Twitter engineer…

I used to get paid in stock. I had a plan on file to auto-sell it every month, and then I reinvested the proceeds so I had less financial exposure to my employer. The exact scenario is if the company stops doing well, then your job is going to go away at the same time the stock becomes worth $0.

The other side of the coin is that you pay significantly less taxes if you hold on to the vested shares. They increase in value after vesting, and you structure your sales such that you take a long term capital gain. A lot of my coworkers did that, and have a lot more money than me. But it's a gamble, and you should always weigh your gambles by how badly you can afford to do.

(I hate getting paid in stock, but it's advantageous to the employer, so it will always be a thing. With auto-sale, it's a very similar risk to being paid in cash, except that you have a lot of annoying paperwork to do every year. But you just pay someone to do that.

Oh, and if you're a new FAANG hire, please just find a professional to do your taxes. I did it myself and fucked it up a number of times. The IRS does not like fuckups, and extremely competent professionals will do everything for you for a small amount of money.)

Re: Twitter Layoff Started Today

#149

Post by sokoloff »

notch656a wrote: post #117
onion2k wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't how it works unfortunately. If the shares vest during the blackout period they're only released to the employee, or former employee, once the blackout ends. The employees can't sell these until the blackout is lifted. Currently there is no end date set.

I would think someone would be happy to lend you the number of shares you have blacked out for a large fee, with a contract you release that to the lender afterwards. Something like "we lend you 75% face of your blackout shares now, in return we get all your blackout shares when they're released." Edit: Per below comment, don't do this :)

Most of these anti-insider trading policies prevent all of the obvious "one clever tricks" by prohibiting entering into options contracts, lending, borrowing, shorting, executing futures transactions, etc.

If you could find someone to lend you cash (based on the totality of your financial situation and personal credit), that's fine. It's not fine to borrow someone else's shares and short them during a blackout.

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