Flânerie: The Art of Aimless Strolling • Hacker News Board

Re: Flânerie: The Art of Aimless Strolling

#71

Post by afc » Thu, Jul 07, 2022, 7:49 PM UTC

mijamo wrote: post #32

kokanator wrote: post #28

This seems similar to the difference between hiking ( trailing walking ) and off trail trekking. The later is more of an overland pursuit where any number of surprises await from geological formations to stands of vegetation to a vast array of creatures. It is the unknown just around the bend of the ravine, or inside the stand of trees, or over the next ridge that causes me to disappear into a more natural world as o…

Not really similar. The point of flâner is to let your mind go free, it is a relaxing experience that I could only compare to a massage. You just let everything go and just wander around, get lost in your thoughts, sometimes an external element cat he's your senses but it is purely curiosity and not really focus demanding. You are not exploring. You could do it in an IKEA for all that matters. Going off trail trekkin…

Yeah, agree; I find it very interesting how the article keeps coming back to the point that this should be done _in the cities_, that even a relaxing hike through nature just ... would be something entirely different. They even have the quote contrasting London to "the country".

I found it very French, centered on the contact with the city, the people, the architecture; in contrast with the very common practice in Switzerland (where I live) of taking any chance you get to _go out_ from the city into the mountains/nature. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a Swiss who would consider walking in the city instead of out in nature. So, yeah, very interesting cultural contrast.

Re: Flânerie: The Art of Aimless Strolling

#72

Post by Saint_Genet » Thu, Jul 07, 2022, 7:54 PM UTC

lyricism wrote: post #67

Saint_Genet wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It must be exhausting being this afraid of the world around you

There are a lot of dismissive replies to this comment but as a woman who has tried this in "safe" but unfamiliar cities, things can get scary very quickly. Catcalls are inevitable, and only the beginning. A catcall from a passing car that has slowed to swerve towards you is terrifying. Yes, self-defense and being aware of your surroundings help, but don't exactly lend themselves to the state of mind described in this…

No post body was provided.

Re: Flânerie: The Art of Aimless Strolling

#73

Post by caradine » Thu, Jul 07, 2022, 8:03 PM UTC

> The flâneur is traditionally depicted as male and is a figure of urban affluence and modernity since he has the free time and ability to wander detached from society, with no other purpose than to observe contemporary society with keen interest.

I used to walk around a lot on the weekends with no destination in mind. However, after my transition from male to female, I realized the truth of this quote from the article. This sort of aimless strolling is mostly available to men. Although I still enjoy walking around, and prefer to live in a walkable city, I usually have a destination in mind. Invisibility in public space is no longer afforded to me. Now I am a target for eyes and unsolicited comments, and occasionally aggressive behavior. The heightened awareness of risks to my safety has somewhat diminished the joy of flânerie for me.

Re: Flânerie: The Art of Aimless Strolling

#74

Post by lyricism » Thu, Jul 07, 2022, 8:03 PM UTC

Saint_Genet wrote: post #72

lyricism wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of dismissive replies to this comment but as a woman who has tried this in "safe" but unfamiliar cities, things can get scary very quickly. Catcalls are inevitable, and only the beginning. A catcall from a passing car that has slowed to swerve towards you is terrifying. Yes, self-defense and being aware of your surroundings help, but don't exactly lend themselves to the state of mind described in this…

Quoted post unavailable.

This is my first comment but I have read this site daily since I created the account in March. I felt that my experience would be a valuable addition to the thread and I am not attempting to speak for all women. I'm sorry if it came off that way and I am genuinely happy that you haven't had this experience. This site seems to be a bit of an echo chamber sometimes so I thought I'd offer a differing opinion.

Re: Flânerie: The Art of Aimless Strolling

#75

Post by frogpelt » Thu, Jul 07, 2022, 8:04 PM UTC

Saint_Genet wrote: post #72

lyricism wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of dismissive replies to this comment but as a woman who has tried this in "safe" but unfamiliar cities, things can get scary very quickly. Catcalls are inevitable, and only the beginning. A catcall from a passing car that has slowed to swerve towards you is terrifying. Yes, self-defense and being aware of your surroundings help, but don't exactly lend themselves to the state of mind described in this…

Quoted post unavailable.

What's your point?

Re: Flânerie: The Art of Aimless Strolling

#76

Post by frogpelt » Thu, Jul 07, 2022, 8:09 PM UTC

Etheryte wrote: post #37

drewzero1 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there really such a thing?

I can't help but ask where you're from when that's your initial reaction? My initial reaction was what city isn't safe for taking a walk?

Maybe you took the comment the wrong way.

It could mean there are dangers in every city. Thus, don't look for a safe one.

Re: Flânerie: The Art of Aimless Strolling

#77

Post by clairity » Thu, Jul 07, 2022, 8:16 PM UTC

idlehand wrote: post #69

clairity wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fear is mostly irrational, as people are generally bad at perceiving risk objectively. statistics show that nearly all cities and neighborhoods are generally quite safe for casual visitors and residents alike. vehicular accidents are more likely than violent confrontation, for instance, yet no one bats an eye at getting into a car. even in the rare occasion of some type of confrontation, most people want to resolve i…

I think you're right, but there is also the possibility that people avoiding places and situations which feel unsafe is a factor in the low number of incidents.

that's marginal though, as people might be, at the margin, shifting the places they go, rather than not going anywhere (covid lockdowns excepted). so that might induce a marginal change in incident rates, but not anywhere near at a magnitude to warrant a change of behavior.

the biggest threat in our urban walking lives is really cars[0], and even that isn't so large that we should remain in a state of constant fear.

[0]: pollution is actually the biggest (external) threat, since it's estimated to be responsible for millions of lives lost annually worldwide, but that's regardless of urban walking, so it's beyond the scope of the argument here.

Re: Flânerie: The Art of Aimless Strolling

#78

Post by smugma » Thu, Jul 07, 2022, 8:21 PM UTC

clairity wrote: post #48

Nihilartikel wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember such a stroll Eddy St. in the Tenderloin one fine midnight. No muggings, but a number of fellow citizens were very curious about whether I would like to buy stuff from them.

fear is mostly irrational, as people are generally bad at perceiving risk objectively. statistics show that nearly all cities and neighborhoods are generally quite safe for casual visitors and residents alike. vehicular accidents are more likely than violent confrontation, for instance, yet no one bats an eye at getting into a car. even in the rare occasion of some type of confrontation, most people want to resolve i…

I accidentally walked through a Rio favela one evening. Never ran into anyone and didn’t realize it until the next day when I was looking at a map. But I believe by most accounts, that was foolish and lucky. Crime, including robbery and kidnapping, is quite common in Rio. It’s common for nice buildings to have armed guards outside them.

I’m American so I’d love to hear locals tell me how wrong/right my belief of luck/foolishness was.

Re: Flânerie: The Art of Aimless Strolling

#79

Post by clairity » Thu, Jul 07, 2022, 8:37 PM UTC

smugma wrote: post #78

clairity wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fear is mostly irrational, as people are generally bad at perceiving risk objectively. statistics show that nearly all cities and neighborhoods are generally quite safe for casual visitors and residents alike. vehicular accidents are more likely than violent confrontation, for instance, yet no one bats an eye at getting into a car. even in the rare occasion of some type of confrontation, most people want to resolve i…

I accidentally walked through a Rio favela one evening. Never ran into anyone and didn’t realize it until the next day when I was looking at a map. But I believe by most accounts, that was foolish and lucky. Crime, including robbery and kidnapping, is quite common in Rio. It’s common for nice buildings to have armed guards outside them. I’m American so I’d love to hear locals tell me how wrong/right my belief of luck…

probably a marginal rise in risk, but not enough to warrant a complete change in behavior (i.e., actively avoiding the area). you'd need to quantify "common" and the relevant priors before you could know for sure. that's not to say it's prudent to be an idiot and flaunt your wealth or something, but that risk is relative and to act accordingly.

Re: Flânerie: The Art of Aimless Strolling

#80

Post by kokanator » Thu, Jul 07, 2022, 8:40 PM UTC

afc wrote: post #71

mijamo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really similar. The point of flâner is to let your mind go free, it is a relaxing experience that I could only compare to a massage. You just let everything go and just wander around, get lost in your thoughts, sometimes an external element cat he's your senses but it is purely curiosity and not really focus demanding. You are not exploring. You could do it in an IKEA for all that matters. Going off trail trekkin…

Yeah, agree; I find it very interesting how the article keeps coming back to the point that this should be done _in the cities_, that even a relaxing hike through nature just ... would be something entirely different. They even have the quote contrasting London to "the country". I found it very French, centered on the contact with the city, the people, the architecture; in contrast with the very common practice in Sw…

Agreed.

It is perhaps necessary to be completely comfortable with the surroundings. To those who have not found complete comfort with nature and would be concerned about things like twisting an ankle ( as if you couldn't do that on a curb or broken sidewalk ) it may be difficult to enter this mindless state in nature.

What is very odd about the absolute focus on _in the cities_ is if you were to switch that with _in the desert_ or _in the hills_ or _on the mountain_ the feelings the article is describing are very similar to the sense I have when I have actually left it behind and am now 'lost' if you will in my surroundings.