Live data from Hacker News

Ethereum Proof-of-Stake

0xfoobar.substack.com

111–120 of 338 posts

Re: Ethereum Proof-of-Stake

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I am stupid, but at least to me its not obvious how one would randomly select a member in a decentralized way, assuming some actors are malicious?

I'd love to see this explained too, like in simple words.

One simple algorithm, just to convince you that this is possible, would be as follows:

* All of the members generate a key-pair, and introduce themselves to each other with their public key as their identity.

* After a certain time interval, all members individually pick their own random number, and publish just the hash of it, thereby "pre-committing" to it (signing it with their private key).

* Once all the hashes are known, the members reveal the random numbers that were the inputs (and the other members check that they hash to the pre-committed values).

* The members then XOR all the random numbers together (and then maybe hash the result) to produce a single final random number.

* That random number is reduced modulo the number of members, producing a number which is then used as an index into the list of members (sorted by public key).

There are edge cases with malicious or badly connected nodes potentially dropping out at each stage, so this requires a bootstrapped consensus system that can agree on which nodes are bad and punish them financially.

Re: Ethereum Proof-of-Stake

#112

>Let’s walk through a couple theoretical scenarios where a subset of malicious validators wants to censor transactions, say those originating in FATF-blacklisted countries. Hang on a second. Just to be clear about this example, this example is walking through how Ethereum has been designed specifically to allow North Korea to transact Ethereum, and more than that, prevent anyone who dissents. Like, I mean ok, I get t…

You should understand that this is a very USA centred opinion. There’s a whole big world of different cultures and politics, and it is possible to believe there are other approaches where we reject violence and authority. It’s the usual “you’re helping drug dealers/terrorists/North Korea, but what about the children?!” state simping that ignores the violence of the existing systems, and ignores the billions of people…

> You should understand that this is a very USA centred opinion

If by USA you mean any country that doesn’t enjoy rogue states which constantly threaten nuclear attacks against others, sure

Re: Ethereum Proof-of-Stake

#113

>Let’s walk through a couple theoretical scenarios where a subset of malicious validators wants to censor transactions, say those originating in FATF-blacklisted countries. Hang on a second. Just to be clear about this example, this example is walking through how Ethereum has been designed specifically to allow North Korea to transact Ethereum, and more than that, prevent anyone who dissents. Like, I mean ok, I get t…

Censorship resistance is truly blind. That's a feature, not a bug.

Re: Ethereum Proof-of-Stake

#114
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1% of ALL energy generated just to operate a part of the world economy is a massive amount though...

Bitcoin uses less energy than Gold Mining and the Banking System https://twitter.com/topimp21/status/1542863870552936448 "Bitcoin uses 2-56 times less energy than the fiat system" https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/bitcoin-environmental-de...

It also processes several orders of magnitude less transactions, and does so much slower (and at a higher cost). Please stop posting misleading claims.

Re: Ethereum Proof-of-Stake

#115
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1% of ALL energy generated just to operate a part of the world economy is a massive amount though...

Bitcoin uses less energy than Gold Mining and the Banking System https://twitter.com/topimp21/status/1542863870552936448 "Bitcoin uses 2-56 times less energy than the fiat system" https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/bitcoin-environmental-de...

Bitcoin also processes over a 10,000 times less transactions than the fiat system

Re: Ethereum Proof-of-Stake

#116

>Let’s walk through a couple theoretical scenarios where a subset of malicious validators wants to censor transactions, say those originating in FATF-blacklisted countries. Hang on a second. Just to be clear about this example, this example is walking through how Ethereum has been designed specifically to allow North Korea to transact Ethereum, and more than that, prevent anyone who dissents. Like, I mean ok, I get t…

> Then the US government smash down your door and throw you in federal prison because you're actively working to help North Korea.

Not a real issue because transactions are not associated with IPs. There's basically no way to know the country of a sender or recipient. Also, it was ruled that virtual currency miners are not subject to AML regulations[0].

[0] https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/news_release/2014...

Re: Ethereum Proof-of-Stake

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should understand that this is a very USA centred opinion. There’s a whole big world of different cultures and politics, and it is possible to believe there are other approaches where we reject violence and authority. It’s the usual “you’re helping drug dealers/terrorists/North Korea, but what about the children?!” state simping that ignores the violence of the existing systems, and ignores the billions of people…

I absolutely agree we should build infrastructure that allows people within oppressive regimes options with which they can resist, escape and co-ordinate. Which is why this infrastructure, which is clearly designed to empower those regimes, is bad. Are North Koreans using crypto-currencies? Maybe, it doesn't seem like it. Is the North Korean regime using crypto-currencies? Absolutely, we repeatedly see the North Kore…

Once you understand that your regime *is* the oppressive regime, you'd understand why this is necessary.

Re: Ethereum Proof-of-Stake

#118
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it work?

PoS does not give you any power to change the rules of the system, it only makes sure that those who are invested in the system get (slightly) rewarded for good behavior and (heavily) penalized for bad behavior.

That “bad behavior” is precisely what the above poster meant by “changing the rules of the system.” If you or a syndicate have a large enough stake, you can manipulate the transactions which occur.

Re: Ethereum Proof-of-Stake

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you just assume that Etherium is American?

The US assumes everyone is American when enforcement is concerned. Ask Kim Dotcom.

Not anymore, see lack of counter sanctions on oil buyers in India and China of Russian oil. (Even though oil buyers in China have significantly increased their purchase volume and Indian purchases of Russian oil have increased 3100%, not a typo, YoY)

Of course Washington doesn't want to give the Russian, Chinese, and Indian establishments common cause against the US.

Re: Ethereum Proof-of-Stake

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that Eth2 also have about 7 clients that work today (with more being worked on), the specification is clearly understandable by at least 7 different entities, further eroding the argument that Eth2 specification is so complicated no one actually understands it.

Most of the linked spec is pseudocode - actually it looks like valid python code. So to be fair I highly doubt you'd need any understanding of what it's actually doing to successfully implement that spec. Just like I still have no clue how Quaternions work, yet I've implemented them multiple times.

How much would one need to pay you to test your hypothesis?

That is you try to implement a standard complaint new Eth2 implementation from scratch ( and possible record yourself while doing so.

Post reply on HN