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I analyzed hospital price lists so you didn't have to

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Re: I analyzed hospital price lists so you didn't have to

#161
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost certainly the value of pensions. There are teachers on that list making $65k with "benefits" of 1mm, which is probably the NPV of ~20 years of pension income.

This is why transparency is often nothing but a parlor trick. The raw information we are given is useless

This is why transparency is not just a "post it and done" process. It is a conversation.

At least with this much, you have a foundation to ask questions.

Re: I analyzed hospital price lists so you didn't have to

#162
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, the solution to most social ills in America is to simply not be poor. If you are poor, stop it. Those people deserve it. I mean, some people chose to be born to wealthy parents; if you were too lazy to do that why should I have to reward your laziness by paying to look after you? Really, some people can be so selfish! > It is very nice indeed to be a VIP in an American hospital My gf had a life threatening illn…

VIP treatment means a private room and doctors who personally really actually pay attention to your treatment because the administrator has reminded them to do that, or your friend from med school/business school has asked them to do that. It is not conferred by a blanket. BTW there is a carrot and a stick going on. Yes, the hospital admin wants to make VIP patients happy for donations, but they also want to avoid ma…

I don't really think the Mr/Mrs Moneybags "VIP patient" compares remotely to a board-certified member of La Cosa Nostra Medical Mafia with an iphone full of colleagues and professional acquaintances with a friend-of-an-attending across all specialties

When you are a doctor, you're part of the club. Skipping the line and getting a consult in 30 seconds? Well, that is 15 seconds too long. Got a laceration on your child, and want a 3 layer closure by the head of Plastics? No issue there. Want to convene a board on your rare medical issue? Well, there is a doctors only Facebook group for that, with about 500 docs ready to chime in on their breaks.

It goes way behind this too. Indepth knowledge and advice about who the actual locally best doctors and surgeons are, across specialties (not the popularity contest or bought magazine ones either). Early tracks on new promising studies. Handouts of non-scrip medical supplies like event swag. Pharma-reps wanting to market their novel products and spread the info on them. The amount of free stuff is off the charts.

I've seen exponentially more over the top professional courtesy "Good Old Docs" club from my Dr. wife and the associated professional network, than I have in any other profession by far.

Re: I analyzed hospital price lists so you didn't have to

#165
post #65

Wrote Hacking Healthcare for O'Reilly, created ClearHealth/HealthCloud open source EMR, managed health systems for 15+ years, blah, blah, blah. It is very good there is are the transparency regulations. It is worth briefly explaining some of the reasons why many facitilities are having a hard time complying. There are some bad actors, absolutely true. However "Hanlons Razor" -- never attribute to malice that which is…

The difficulty of fixing and improving these systems is frankly overrated. It has more to do with penny pinching and profiteering that they haven't modernized. I don't mean a rewrite in JavaScript either, I mean sensible engineering, which many people are ready to do but not paid to do, because it weakens the upwards money vacuum the finance cabal wants to maintain. Progress isn't profitable enough according to the E…

The irony of attributing the free market healthcare disaster we have here to regulation. Things are plenty regulated in Australia and other socialized countries and they have none of the crazy billing / coverage issues we have. It's frankly, bullshit.

Re: I analyzed hospital price lists so you didn't have to

#166
post #65

Wrote Hacking Healthcare for O'Reilly, created ClearHealth/HealthCloud open source EMR, managed health systems for 15+ years, blah, blah, blah. It is very good there is are the transparency regulations. It is worth briefly explaining some of the reasons why many facitilities are having a hard time complying. There are some bad actors, absolutely true. However "Hanlons Razor" -- never attribute to malice that which is…

You've touched on regulation being one source of this problem. But do you think prices will become more normal if regulations disappeared? What do you think is different between the US health care regulatory structure, vs. those in other countries? Can we have the same desired effect with regulations that are easier for hospitals to follow (so as not to be dependent on Epic)?

It's really convenient to cherry pick parts of "healthcare" or the "healthcare system". The thing is, it's 20-25% of our entire economy, so it's really hard to make meaningful comparisons to other countries and their distinct economic systems, in my opinion. To compare you end up having to get into labor, education, taxation, political systems, etc. The most obvious thing is that the USA is a federation of states and with regard to healthcare the federal government has relatively little direct power (but a lot of money). I think the transparency regulations are an excellent small step, I think that there is a little bit of disconnect in regards to timeframe. It will take several more years to see how that plays out.

Regulation is one piece but ultimately dysfunction stems from huge differences between what different constituents want from a healthcare system and what they want it to be (and not be). People hold extremely different views about it. Depending on your circle and where you live you may not realize just how far apart your thinking is from people in other circles and places. Creating palatable compromises between those groups has proved almost impossible and so a lot of what we have in lieu of a compromise occurs by default and accident.

Re: I analyzed hospital price lists so you didn't have to

#167
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I broke my foot recently. Calling around and asking for quotes ranged from a straight up "I don't know" to "Here is the cash price. We won't know your HDHP insurance price until after we bill them, which could be good for you or could be bad. It will probably be bad, because there are more middlemen." I tried paying the cash price. They inadvertently billed my insurance anyway. Turns out, I actually saved like 33% us…

Hospital IT systems are incredibly locked down, especially from a network perspective. And DICOM images (the format things like x-rays are stored in) are very large, and not readable by most image readers. I honestly don't know if there are even free DICOM readers out there, but there probably are. CD is honestly the easiest way for them to send the images to you, because you can give them to any doctor and they can…

> I honestly don't know if there are even free DICOM readers out there, but there probably are.

If you've ever gotten a cd with your medical imaging on it, it will come with the software required to read it.

Re: I analyzed hospital price lists so you didn't have to

#168
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I broke my foot recently. Calling around and asking for quotes ranged from a straight up "I don't know" to "Here is the cash price. We won't know your HDHP insurance price until after we bill them, which could be good for you or could be bad. It will probably be bad, because there are more middlemen." I tried paying the cash price. They inadvertently billed my insurance anyway. Turns out, I actually saved like 33% us…

I just got billed $5000 for a routine echocardiogram at Stanford, and in the process of fighting it. My insurance is supposed to cover preventative care 100% (not even a copay). They billed $18000 total (yes, for a 1-hour ultrasound) and insurance is leaving me to pay $5000. This is about the 6th time this has happened. It's always 15+ e-mails back and forth, then threatening lawyers, then they back off. I'm wonderin…

I had the same experience with a endoscopy/colonoscopy at Palo Alto Medical Foundation / Sutter Health.

We should crowdsource a guide to navigating healthcare in Northern California, it’s utterly fucked up.

Even getting a primary care physician is impossible, nobody is taking patients and the websites of any place (sutter, ucsf etc) don’t reflect any accurate info about who could actually become a primary care provider for you.

The best healthcare situation I experienced was via Cedar Sinai while we lived in Los Angeles.

Re: I analyzed hospital price lists so you didn't have to

#169
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really is a toothless law, the hospital probably makes more surplus profit from price discrimination in a single week than their entire fine for the year. The damages should be increased 100x.

I would advocate a more direct form of damages: a hospital that does not comply may not charge more than the minimum over all hospitals in a 500 mile radius for any procedure. A hospital that does charge more and is caught must refund double the difference. Furthermore, no contractual provision may penalize patients for attempting to seek that double refund, and a class action lawsuit to recover the difference that a…

The only reason these laws have any teeth is medicare/medicaid reimbursements.

If you make working with the govt on reimbursements too painful, many hospitals in well-off insured areas (good payer mix which is like gold to medicine) will just stop treating medicare/medicaid.

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