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Quebec Sovereignty Movement

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Re: Quebec Sovereignty Movement

#91

Post by qwedf »

jpambrun wrote: post #80
qwedf wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I checked, Montreal is in Canada and Canada has two official languages. It's my right

Quoted post unavailable.

I AM THE HOST COMMUNITY.

Born in Montreal, fully bilingual, lived here for majority of my life - came back 8 or so years ago to a peaceful situation that was broken apart because nationalist extremists freaked out when greeted with "Bonjour, Hi!".

Now I have a government openly saying other cultures don't matter:

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/quebec-thwarted-by-multicultural...

Re: Quebec Sovereignty Movement

#92

Post by moltar »

ekidd wrote: post #61
johnasmith wrote: post #3

I'm Québécois from birth (Trois Rivières). I voted in the incredibly close '95 seperation referendum. In my view, separation or sovereignty would be bad for us. Separation is mainly predicated on the idea that Québécois are culturally distinct from the rest of Canada, and that our values would be better represented independently. We mostly speak French, and the rest of Canada is predominantly anglo (my New Brunswick…

> Breaking from Canada to underline these minor differences would come at a tremendous cost. Unfortunately, I suspect that the renewed separatist movement is making a lot of people rethink potential futures in Quebec. For example, my wife and I would easily meet the requirements to immigrate to Quebec. We have francophone family in Montreal, we speak French (one of us natively), and we have valuable professional skil…

We are leaving Montreal for the reasons you describe. We are not Francophones and we no longer feel welcomed.

It all feels like the history is repeating itself.

Re: Quebec Sovereignty Movement

#93

Post by qwedf »

rayiner wrote: post #84
qwedf wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In no case am I grafting Americanism onto Canadian politics. I'm using an analogy to illustrate to non-Canadians how outsiders (nationalist extremists from the ROQ) are able to impose their values and views on the multicultural, multilingual city of Montreal and it has systematically strangled the city since 1976. Or do you have another explanation for the population , capital, and cultural flight that occurred over…

Reducing all conflicts between different cultural groups to “racism” is an Americanism. “Racism” is a specific concept that explains why, for example, British Americans in Georgia might feel more affinity for German Americans in Indiana than more culturally similar Black Americans in Georgia. That’s not what’s happening in Quebec. It’s not like rural Quebecois are welcoming of Anglo Canadians either. They simply oppo…

Racism plays a major role here [1,2], and it's certainly a motivation for Bill 21 at least. Remember, this is the ultimate culmination of a village writing a handbook for immigrants that included not eating babies, like they do in their home country [3].

Bill 96 is a direct violation of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, so you're right it's not racist, just a denial of my guaranteed rights as a Canadian Citizen. Ignoring First Nations, of course, many of whom speak neither French nor English. If you do count them, then Bill 96 can also be considered racist

[1] https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/two-thirds-of-qu...

[2] https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/quebec-coroner-feels-joyce-echaq...

[3] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/12/world/canada/canada-herou...

Re: Quebec Sovereignty Movement

#94

Post by qwedf »

rayiner wrote: post #88
qwedf wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear I'm upset about these policies because they stamped out the ideals of Montreal and have strangled the city, turning it from a truly global capital to a provincial backwater that's now more renowned as a great place for Americans to get in some underage drinking. My National ideals, and those of the majority from Montreal, are multilingualism and multiculturalism. Runs against the ideals of the ROQ (Rest O…

> My National ideals, and those of the majority from Montreal, are multilingualism and multiculturalism. Those are Anglo-influenced globalist ideals. The Francophone world is decidedly not multicultural. It’s proud of French history and culture and dedicated to protecting it. London or Toronto are like the Android ecosystem. An eclectic if often inelegant free for all. Paris and Montreal are like iOS: carefully curat…

During its ascendency as a global capital, Montreal was a decidedly multicultural and multicultural metropolis. One that native Montrealers (read: those with deep roots here) try to cultivate.

But today's Montreal is the result of heavy-handed, paternalistic social engineering driven by an external government over the past 40 years... And is a shell of its former self. One that is going to be further hollowed unless these laws are reversed.

Re: Quebec Sovereignty Movement

#95

Post by angry_octet »

mantas wrote: post #78
angry_octet wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really depressing how little the wider Quebec population understands about the very serious economic consequences of separation. They don't understand that Montreal, and all it's immigrant workers, is paying for their doctors and retirement plans, the reason they can afford a big house, a boat and holidays in Cuba. Making cheap electricity and aluminium isn't enough. There's a strong undercurrent of anti-Islamic…

At the same time, the world would be a better place if people cared about more things than material well being. If people are fine with less consumption and are willing to trade it for the sake of what they see as a better society.. Why not? That's like looking at hippy community out in the forests. And then bitching at them that they'll have very serious economic consequences.

Health is material well being?

And really, people are not keen to give up quality if life to exclude immigrants, they've been suckered into believing immigrants are a burden on the state and are DESTROYING OUR CULTURE BY CAUSING MULTICULTURALISM. Yes, multiculturalism, the recognition that people of various cultures can benefit from that mixing ideas, is a curse word for the right-separatists. As if a few North African restaurants and a couple of mosques will cause Québécois culture to disintegrate.

Quebec has been next to the USA and anglophone Canada for it's entire existence and every American or Ontarian concept has been molded to suit, but has never replaced a local tradition unless the local wanted it to.

Re: Quebec Sovereignty Movement

#96

Post by dang »

jpambrun wrote: post #80
qwedf wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I checked, Montreal is in Canada and Canada has two official languages. It's my right

Quoted post unavailable.

You've crossed into name-calling and personal attack repeatedly in this thread. Can you please not do that? It's against the site guidelines and we ban that sort of account.

I'm sure you have strong feelings on the topic for completely legitimate reasons, but we need to avoid flamewar here.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re: Quebec Sovereignty Movement

#97

Post by jpambrun »

dang wrote: post #96
jpambrun wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

You've crossed into name-calling and personal attack repeatedly in this thread. Can you please not do that? It's against the site guidelines and we ban that sort of account. I'm sure you have strong feelings on the topic for completely legitimate reasons, but we need to avoid flamewar here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more…

You are missing some context. Seeing such debate, in English, where people trying to save their culture are painted as racist is kinda offensive.

Re: Quebec Sovereignty Movement

#98

Post by dang »

jpambrun wrote: post #97
dang wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've crossed into name-calling and personal attack repeatedly in this thread. Can you please not do that? It's against the site guidelines and we ban that sort of account. I'm sure you have strong feelings on the topic for completely legitimate reasons, but we need to avoid flamewar here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more…

You are missing some context. Seeing such debate, in English, where people trying to save their culture are painted as racist is kinda offensive.

We need you to follow the rules regardless of how badly other people are behaving, or you feel they are.

It always feels like the other side started it and did worse, so this is the only way to avoid a downward spiral. https://hn.algolia.com/?query=downward%20spiral%20by:dang&da...

Re: Quebec Sovereignty Movement

#99

Post by mantas »

angry_octet wrote: post #95
mantas wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time, the world would be a better place if people cared about more things than material well being. If people are fine with less consumption and are willing to trade it for the sake of what they see as a better society.. Why not? That's like looking at hippy community out in the forests. And then bitching at them that they'll have very serious economic consequences.

Health is material well being? And really, people are not keen to give up quality if life to exclude immigrants, they've been suckered into believing immigrants are a burden on the state and are DESTROYING OUR CULTURE BY CAUSING MULTICULTURALISM. Yes, multiculturalism, the recognition that people of various cultures can benefit from that mixing ideas, is a curse word for the right-separatists. As if a few North Afric…

Health is primarily a cultural thing. Lifestyle, diet etc.

US is stark example how over-the-top money shovelled into healthcare may give abysmal results if culture is lacking.

Migrants may be a burden. Denmark recently published a detailed origin-based statistics if migrants are, materially, a positive or negative.

Nobody counts few restaurants as multiculturalism. And once you have significant number of outsiders... Various tensions come up. For example how Russians act in the light of Ukraine-Russia war in ex-USSR. Over here, we also had interesting issues in dealing with pandemics based on ethnicity.

Re: Quebec Sovereignty Movement

#100

Post by angry_octet »

mantas wrote: post #99
angry_octet wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Health is material well being? And really, people are not keen to give up quality if life to exclude immigrants, they've been suckered into believing immigrants are a burden on the state and are DESTROYING OUR CULTURE BY CAUSING MULTICULTURALISM. Yes, multiculturalism, the recognition that people of various cultures can benefit from that mixing ideas, is a curse word for the right-separatists. As if a few North Afric…

Health is primarily a cultural thing. Lifestyle, diet etc. US is stark example how over-the-top money shovelled into healthcare may give abysmal results if culture is lacking. Migrants may be a burden. Denmark recently published a detailed origin-based statistics if migrants are, materially, a positive or negative. Nobody counts few restaurants as multiculturalism. And once you have significant number of outsiders...…

In Quebec the health system (RAMQ) is culture. Everyone is incredibly proud of it (much like the NHS), while also understanding that it is underfunded and struggling. Immigrants understand they will never get a GP unless they move to the country because GP places are gerrymandered, but locals rarely experience this problem.

In Quebec, a few restaurants with foreign sounding names is enough to trigger the anti-multicultural police. God forbid they should have menu items with arabic or Chinese names.

The immigrants do all the shit jobs with low pay. But without them critical services wouldn't happen. I don't call that an immigrant problem. If you count building schools for their children a burden then yes, growth is a burden. Rich people snort cocaine like hoovers but no one counts them as part of the drug problem, but the entire Haitian ethnic group gets called drug dealers.

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