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Ruby Shield: Shopify donates $1M to stewards of rubygems, bundler

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Re: Ruby Shield: Shopify donates $1M to stewards of rubygems, bundler

#81

Post by mediaman »

ezekiel11 wrote: post #35
thallium205 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's not the fault of the ecosystem or the language then why is it in decline?

attention is in decline. developers are paying more attention to other languages that yields greater number of employment options. it should be that RoR devs get increasing rates as they become rarer but its not, demand is also dwindling as enterprises feel uneasy about banking the future on a smaller talent pool.

Why is Rails in decline? I see a lot of people say they're developing instead with rust, or python, or javascript.

But Rust has little to do with what Ruby/Rails is used for, and Python is mostly used in other fields also (it's not like Django is taking over the world). Every time I look at the various JS frameworks it seems like just a huge lift to get something going versus Rails, for typical SME type business problems. Most problems don't really seem to require SPA.

Things like Elixir/Phoenix look very interesting and promising, but their ecosystem is (for now) much smaller. And just the size of the Elixir community right now suggests that it's not like all the RoR developers went to Elixir.

So what is the thing that is so much more attractive than Rails, to solve your everyday business logic issues for small to medium scale problems?

Does all engineers and companies think they are solving Google-scale problems or something?

I feel like I'm missing something obvious.

Re: Ruby Shield: Shopify donates $1M to stewards of rubygems, bundler

#82

Post by ezekiel11 »

mediaman wrote: post #81
ezekiel11 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

attention is in decline. developers are paying more attention to other languages that yields greater number of employment options. it should be that RoR devs get increasing rates as they become rarer but its not, demand is also dwindling as enterprises feel uneasy about banking the future on a smaller talent pool.

Why is Rails in decline? I see a lot of people say they're developing instead with rust, or python, or javascript. But Rust has little to do with what Ruby/Rails is used for, and Python is mostly used in other fields also (it's not like Django is taking over the world). Every time I look at the various JS frameworks it seems like just a huge lift to get something going versus Rails, for typical SME type business prob…

Your observation is correct but its that companies can't hire like they used to when RoR was at its peak. Like I said, unless you have growing revenues to continue to retain senior talent, its going to be tough in the future as there is no continued queue of talent making it through the pipelines. Maybe one day RoR will become the Java EE and will rely on a very limited pool of workers, and that is the situation that many are trying to correct. You absolutely need to pay attention to what the new generation of developers are learning in order to suppress wages, failure to do so without consistent revenue growth you introduce issues that will seep into your business, especially if you rely on being online.

Re: Ruby Shield: Shopify donates $1M to stewards of rubygems, bundler

#83

Post by mr_ruby_man »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #72
notpachet wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think it's both. The language: Tech companies are becoming more aware of the dangers posed by maintaining and updating large codebases written in an untyped language. I know there's a lot of work still being done in Rubyland on this problem but it feels like the horse left the barn long ago. A lot of Rubyists seem aesthetically opposed to types, including influential language stewards. Sorbet is arguably t…

The language: Tech companies are becoming more aware of the dangers posed by maintaining and updating large codebases written in an untyped language. Ruby is not untyped. It's dynamically typed. FORTH is untyped.

In this circle, untyped is vernacular for languages that don't do static typing as a default.

So yes you are correct, but the OP is also very aware it is dynamically typed.

Re: Ruby Shield: Shopify donates $1M to stewards of rubygems, bundler

#84

Post by MetricMike »

jacques_chester wrote: post #65
jmcgough wrote: post #21

More big companies that use open source should do this or something similar. The dividends to security, developer productivity, etc are probably extremely high, particularly for a company with hundreds or thousands of engineers already. It's such an efficient use of money to give it to the people who already have the expertise to do the work.

It seems like my peers at other such companies are being modest, so I will speak up on their behalf. Microsoft and Google have jointly funded the OpenSSF Alpha-Omega project to the tune of $5M. In turn Alpha-Omega has granted $300k for Node.js security[0] and $400k each to the Python Software Foundation and the Eclipse Foundation for security work[1]. Google are also forming an "Open Source Maintenance Crew"[2], a gr…

Their contributions notwithstanding, Shopify deserves a little extra kudos for publicizing Ruby Shield so well.

Open Source software is essential for progress, but can be scary to rely on. Efforts to harden it should be celebrated.

Re: Ruby Shield: Shopify donates $1M to stewards of rubygems, bundler

#85

Post by mr_ruby_man »

mediaman wrote: post #81
ezekiel11 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

attention is in decline. developers are paying more attention to other languages that yields greater number of employment options. it should be that RoR devs get increasing rates as they become rarer but its not, demand is also dwindling as enterprises feel uneasy about banking the future on a smaller talent pool.

Why is Rails in decline? I see a lot of people say they're developing instead with rust, or python, or javascript. But Rust has little to do with what Ruby/Rails is used for, and Python is mostly used in other fields also (it's not like Django is taking over the world). Every time I look at the various JS frameworks it seems like just a huge lift to get something going versus Rails, for typical SME type business prob…

As an ex-Ruby dev,

I don't need an ORM, I don't need ActiveRecord, and I don't need MVC.

I want the framework to be out of my way, which is what FastAPI and ExpressJS provide.

Ruby itself isn't attractive, as a scripting/dynamic language it's worse than Python, therefore no point in using it.

Keep in mind, I don't like Python either, that's why you can trust my opinion since I don't have bias for either or.

Re: Ruby Shield: Shopify donates $1M to stewards of rubygems, bundler

#86

Post by jacques_chester »

ayewo wrote: post #76
jacques_chester wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was vocally at Pivotal->VMware for a total of 7 years, so a reasonable enough association to form. I've been at Shopify for a little over a year now.

I see. Belated congrats on the new gig!

Thanks!

Re: Ruby Shield: Shopify donates $1M to stewards of rubygems, bundler

#87

Post by LAC-Tech »

mr_ruby_man wrote: post #83
LAC-Tech wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The language: Tech companies are becoming more aware of the dangers posed by maintaining and updating large codebases written in an untyped language. Ruby is not untyped. It's dynamically typed. FORTH is untyped.

In this circle, untyped is vernacular for languages that don't do static typing as a default. So yes you are correct, but the OP is also very aware it is dynamically typed.

Is he?

No offence but if someone can't get basic terms right, then maybe they should speak with a little less confidence.

Re: Ruby Shield: Shopify donates $1M to stewards of rubygems, bundler

#88

Post by brianwawok »

rglullis wrote: post #38
brianwawok wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize I compared market cap to networth? And networth is not money? Most of an individuals networth is likely tied up in their primary residence and highly illiquid. If you want, you can repeat my math comparing personal income to corporate income. The difference you will find out is not substantial.

I'm guessing you wouldn't mind sharing receipts of your donations that certainly amount to much more than 0.002% of your net worth?

I’m not submitting a PR stunt on hacker news about it.

Re: Ruby Shield: Shopify donates $1M to stewards of rubygems, bundler

#89

Post by newtwilly »

farleykr wrote: post #58
jmcgough wrote: post #21

More big companies that use open source should do this or something similar. The dividends to security, developer productivity, etc are probably extremely high, particularly for a company with hundreds or thousands of engineers already. It's such an efficient use of money to give it to the people who already have the expertise to do the work.

Do you think that would cause things to veer back toward a paid model or do you see a third way between straight up FOSS and paid software?

Donating money to projects that you use heavily doesn't sound like any kind of traditional paid model to me.
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