FBI Child ID App • Hacker News Board

Re: FBI Child ID App

#191

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 4:57 PM UTC

pwython wrote: post #180

MarkMarine wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FBI and other 3 letter agencies have been vacuuming up every communication between us, warrantless, for so many years it’s crazy. That unconstitutional overreach has been used to do what exactly? No I really want to know. It’s not keeping us safe, because someone who is basically a cartoon caricature of a school shooter can scare everyone they come in contact with, get a long gun and ammo, and execute a mass shoo…

> "That unconstitutional overreach has been used to do what exactly? No I really want to know. It’s not keeping us safe..." Unpopular opinion, but you know the old saying: No one hears about the times the FBI, CIA, etc has stopped a terrorist act, you only hear about the disasters that eventually played out. For every one sick person that went on to do something crazy, hundreds have been caught before anything happen…

[deleted]

Re: FBI Child ID App

#192

Post by azinman2 » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:00 PM UTC

300bps wrote: post #114

alsetmusic wrote: post #62

There's a television ad that stands out in my memory from when I was a kid (80s). The camera pans across patrons at a diner and the voiceover is about how a kidnapped child was recovered as the camera stops on a young girl (~8yo). The child is described, but the child the camera landed on has different features (hair dyed, cut, whatever). The explanation for how she was identified is that her fingerprints were on fil…

My parents were paranoid about kidnappings. It was like perfect social engineering on my parents' generation with TV movies like Adam - the story of John Walsh's son who was kidnapped and beheaded: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085136/ My parents had me and my siblings watch that movie with them - it is still unsettling to me thinking about it. And then the FBI contacted my school and provided a voluntary program for…

Or, they actually were thought to be useful for kidnappings and this was an honest attempt. Perhaps largely security theatre, I could imagine there have been a handful of cases where this was enough.

The ever growing mistrust in government and society will become a self fulfilling promise. I worry about our future when no good and honest talent wants to work for the greater good at reduced pay.

Re: FBI Child ID App

#193

Post by nobody9999 » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:02 PM UTC

pwython wrote: post #180

MarkMarine wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FBI and other 3 letter agencies have been vacuuming up every communication between us, warrantless, for so many years it’s crazy. That unconstitutional overreach has been used to do what exactly? No I really want to know. It’s not keeping us safe, because someone who is basically a cartoon caricature of a school shooter can scare everyone they come in contact with, get a long gun and ammo, and execute a mass shoo…

> "That unconstitutional overreach has been used to do what exactly? No I really want to know. It’s not keeping us safe..." Unpopular opinion, but you know the old saying: No one hears about the times the FBI, CIA, etc has stopped a terrorist act, you only hear about the disasters that eventually played out. For every one sick person that went on to do something crazy, hundreds have been caught before anything happen…

>I don't understand the upset for "warrantless wire-tapping" unless you have something to hide, especially when these days people are begging the government to protect us from extremists/terrorists and not sit on their hands.

Okay. Let's assume for the moment that you "have nothing to hide."

Let's go to your house and set up cameras and microphones covering the premises.

Then, let's do the same for your automobile(s).

And for good measure, let's have you wear a microphone 24/7 too.

Once that's done, we can set up a website where we can all watch/listen to you.

If you have nothing to hide, that should be no big deal, right?

What's that? You don't consent to such monitoring? Why? Do you have something to hide?

Re: FBI Child ID App

#194

Post by azinman2 » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:02 PM UTC

photochemsyn wrote: post #126

Clearly the optimal solution is RFID subdermal microchipping for all children, isn't it? Technology exists for boosted RFID (basically a tiny battery and solar PV linked to the RFID tag) which should work under the skin fairly well. Then install scanners at all public venues and schools, and link to the NSA database out in Utah, so that everyone can be safely location-tracked at all times. Removing the chip would of…

This kind of attitude takes all the oxygen out of the room and makes it impossible to actually do good.

Re: FBI Child ID App

#195

Post by LordDragonfang » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:02 PM UTC

pwython wrote: post #180

MarkMarine wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FBI and other 3 letter agencies have been vacuuming up every communication between us, warrantless, for so many years it’s crazy. That unconstitutional overreach has been used to do what exactly? No I really want to know. It’s not keeping us safe, because someone who is basically a cartoon caricature of a school shooter can scare everyone they come in contact with, get a long gun and ammo, and execute a mass shoo…

> "That unconstitutional overreach has been used to do what exactly? No I really want to know. It’s not keeping us safe..." Unpopular opinion, but you know the old saying: No one hears about the times the FBI, CIA, etc has stopped a terrorist act, you only hear about the disasters that eventually played out. For every one sick person that went on to do something crazy, hundreds have been caught before anything happen…

> No one hears about the times the FBI, CIA, etc has stopped a terrorist act

We should be hearing about them, if they actually exist, especially with how rabid the media is in reporting any potential terrorism stories[1]. A policy of not just quietly "disappearing" people is supposedly what sets us apart from those authoritarian countries that the US likes to paint as boogeymen. If what you're saying was true, it'd be a horrifying breach of ethics and the literal constitutional right to due process.

[1] https://ourworldindata.org/does-the-news-reflect-what-we-die...

Re: FBI Child ID App

#196

Post by BrianGragg » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:09 PM UTC

twunde wrote: post #147

mc32 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most states [edit: apparently only some states] in the US require a fingerprint in order to issue a drivers' license or for a state ID. So I guess you could be somewhat anonymous till you had to get your state ID and then they'd know who it was.

Well this sent me down a tangent since I had never heard of this. Per https://www.cga.ct.gov/2001/rpt/2001-R-0858.htm (circa 2001) the only states that require a fingerprint are California, Colorado, Georgia, Texas although apparently Alabama and Florida used to do so. Feels pretty crazy to me

Oklahoma requires a thumbprint. Electronically.

Re: FBI Child ID App

#197

Post by samatman » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

azinman2 wrote: post #192

300bps wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents were paranoid about kidnappings. It was like perfect social engineering on my parents' generation with TV movies like Adam - the story of John Walsh's son who was kidnapped and beheaded: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085136/ My parents had me and my siblings watch that movie with them - it is still unsettling to me thinking about it. And then the FBI contacted my school and provided a voluntary program for…

Or, they actually were thought to be useful for kidnappings and this was an honest attempt. Perhaps largely security theatre, I could imagine there have been a handful of cases where this was enough. The ever growing mistrust in government and society will become a self fulfilling promise. I worry about our future when no good and honest talent wants to work for the greater good at reduced pay.

There is abundant evidence suggesting that arrow of causality between FBI activity and public perception of them as dastardly flows in the opposite direction from the one you have presumed here.

Re: FBI Child ID App

#198

Post by samatman » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:17 PM UTC

pwython wrote: post #180

MarkMarine wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FBI and other 3 letter agencies have been vacuuming up every communication between us, warrantless, for so many years it’s crazy. That unconstitutional overreach has been used to do what exactly? No I really want to know. It’s not keeping us safe, because someone who is basically a cartoon caricature of a school shooter can scare everyone they come in contact with, get a long gun and ammo, and execute a mass shoo…

> "That unconstitutional overreach has been used to do what exactly? No I really want to know. It’s not keeping us safe..." Unpopular opinion, but you know the old saying: No one hears about the times the FBI, CIA, etc has stopped a terrorist act, you only hear about the disasters that eventually played out. For every one sick person that went on to do something crazy, hundreds have been caught before anything happen…

For this to be true, the FBI would have to: capture 'sick persons' without charging them with a crime or sending out a press release.

I'm curious. What are the other differences in the parallel universe you come from? Does boot leather taste like strawberry shortcake?

Re: FBI Child ID App

#199

Post by Taek » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:20 PM UTC

pwython wrote: post #180

MarkMarine wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FBI and other 3 letter agencies have been vacuuming up every communication between us, warrantless, for so many years it’s crazy. That unconstitutional overreach has been used to do what exactly? No I really want to know. It’s not keeping us safe, because someone who is basically a cartoon caricature of a school shooter can scare everyone they come in contact with, get a long gun and ammo, and execute a mass shoo…

> "That unconstitutional overreach has been used to do what exactly? No I really want to know. It’s not keeping us safe..." Unpopular opinion, but you know the old saying: No one hears about the times the FBI, CIA, etc has stopped a terrorist act, you only hear about the disasters that eventually played out. For every one sick person that went on to do something crazy, hundreds have been caught before anything happen…

Unpopular opinon because its not backed by data. We can use terrist events in countries that don't live under a panopticon as a control group.

Mass surveillance is not improving general safety.

Re: FBI Child ID App

#200

Post by samatman » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:21 PM UTC

gzer0 wrote: post #141

b112 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how does one do packet inspection: * if packets are only sent via carrier, not wifi * if packets are sent to aws instances, which is very common * if it all stops when phone is rooted, which is common for many apps

* deep packet inspection of carrier based communications is a thing [1]. * Gov't is mandated to use AWS Gov instances which are quite easy to distinguish [2]. * there are ways to bypass those rootchecks to make a rooted phone seem not rooted [3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_packet_inspection#United_... [2] https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/security/aws-govcloud-earns-dod... [3] https://stackoverflow.com/questio…

Consider that AWS Gov can offer a service disguising instances as ordinary.

Consider that they wouldn't have to tell us, indeed, might face criminal penalties for disclosing it.

Conclusion: the FBI can do this.