Tell HN: Razorpay a YC company shared donor data under a Section 91 order • Hacker News Board

Re: Tell HN: Razorpay a YC company shared donor data under a Section 91 order

#11

Post by sneak » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 12:50 PM UTC

notlukesky wrote: post #8

They jailed the CEO of Qwest who refused to share surveillance data with the NSA without a court order. This seems to be prudent in other jurisdictions as well, other than the US and now India of course. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2007/10/qwest-ceo-nsa-punished...

Apple chose not-jail and not-ban when faced with the requirement that all iCloud users in China be subject to realtime CCP surveillance. Apple's iCloud operations in China (required under Chinese law for Chinese users) are in CCP-controlled datacenters.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-ce...

Then they did it again in the USA, preserving a backdoor in the end-to-end crypto of iMessage for the FBI:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusiv...

If you are large enough, the laws don't apply to the government's strong-arm treatment of you. They have all the machine guns, you have none.

Presumably Apple de facto does not have the right to widely publish surveillance-resistant end to end crypto without state retribution for same, even on home turf with ostensible 1A rights. This is why they are deploying clientside spyware to scan your local files for CP (or anything else they are forced to scan for in the future by a adversary-controlled DoJ or DHS (hello 2025)). The secure architecture of the iPhone and iPad make it impossible to alter or disable this functionality even on your own device.

The power dynamic is the same in all large countries, regardless of political structure.

You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Re: Tell HN: Razorpay a YC company shared donor data under a Section 91 order

#12

Post by rg111 » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 12:51 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #6

In some parts of the world, an official police request is equivalent to a court order.

I do not know too much about these.

But, couldn't they fight it in court?

Re: Tell HN: Razorpay a YC company shared donor data under a Section 91 order

#13

Post by jfk13 » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 12:53 PM UTC

flareback wrote: post #10

smashah wrote: post #5

It's concerning that YC is funding companies that are so aligned with BJP bigotry that they comply with invasion of privacy requests without a court order.

What is "BJP"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bharatiya_Janata_Party

Re: Tell HN: Razorpay a YC company shared donor data under a Section 91 order

#14

Post by sneak » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 12:54 PM UTC

rg111 wrote: post #12

londons_explore wrote: post #6

In some parts of the world, an official police request is equivalent to a court order.

I do not know too much about these. But, couldn't they fight it in court?

Hard to make it in to court with dozens of broken bones.

Re: Tell HN: Razorpay a YC company shared donor data under a Section 91 order

#15

Post by sateesh » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 12:54 PM UTC

ghoomketu wrote: post #4

While I have no sympathy for razorpay but I'd just like to point out that laws in India are much more heavy handed than a country like US. People are thrown in jail for social media posts and sometimes just for liking a social media post(1) Twitter has been having a very hard time operating in India too(2) and routinely censoring stuff so while IANAL just remember that things are very different in different parts of…

But as the article suggests why was there a need to share data of all donors, they could have shared only those that originated outside India.

Re: Tell HN: Razorpay a YC company shared donor data under a Section 91 order

#16

Post by O__________O » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 12:57 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #11

notlukesky wrote: post #8

They jailed the CEO of Qwest who refused to share surveillance data with the NSA without a court order. This seems to be prudent in other jurisdictions as well, other than the US and now India of course. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2007/10/qwest-ceo-nsa-punished...

Apple chose not-jail and not-ban when faced with the requirement that all iCloud users in China be subject to realtime CCP surveillance. Apple's iCloud operations in China (required under Chinese law for Chinese users) are in CCP-controlled datacenters. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-ce... Then they did it again in the USA, preserving a backdoor in the end-to-end crypto of iMessage for the…

What Apple does publicly and privately are not the same thing, and if anything, Apple has a track record of not removing loopholes that would reduce the surface area available for secret agreements and/or orders; for example, iCloud being able to view data.

Re: Tell HN: Razorpay a YC company shared donor data under a Section 91 order

#17

Post by anovikov » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 12:57 PM UTC

ghoomketu wrote: post #4

While I have no sympathy for razorpay but I'd just like to point out that laws in India are much more heavy handed than a country like US. People are thrown in jail for social media posts and sometimes just for liking a social media post(1) Twitter has been having a very hard time operating in India too(2) and routinely censoring stuff so while IANAL just remember that things are very different in different parts of…

And this is billed as "world's largest democracy". Wtf is the bullshit we are made to believe? Why don't we just stop pretending and relabel most "democratic" countries as just "pro-Westnern"?

Re: Tell HN: Razorpay a YC company shared donor data under a Section 91 order

#18

Post by RicoElectrico » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 12:59 PM UTC

ghoomketu wrote: post #4

While I have no sympathy for razorpay but I'd just like to point out that laws in India are much more heavy handed than a country like US. People are thrown in jail for social media posts and sometimes just for liking a social media post(1) Twitter has been having a very hard time operating in India too(2) and routinely censoring stuff so while IANAL just remember that things are very different in different parts of…

India is weird. It's not really called authoritarian (rankings don't classify it as such), but there are many similar stories of government dysfunction and overreach. Maybe someone else has a word for them?

Re: Tell HN: Razorpay a YC company shared donor data under a Section 91 order

#19

Post by abdellah123 » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 1:01 PM UTC

tl;dr don't save sensitive data all together. Encrypt if you must so that even you can't access it if you wanted to

Re: Tell HN: Razorpay a YC company shared donor data under a Section 91 order

#20

Post by kasey_junk » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 1:01 PM UTC

notlukesky wrote: post #8

They jailed the CEO of Qwest who refused to share surveillance data with the NSA without a court order. This seems to be prudent in other jurisdictions as well, other than the US and now India of course. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2007/10/qwest-ceo-nsa-punished...

Worth noting that Nacchio was jailed for insider trading, not anything national security related. He wanted to present evidence that it was retaliatory for not working with the NSA but was not allowed to. His only other defense was he thought the company was doing better than it was even though Qwest own numbers said otherwise.

The prosecution on the other hand documented pretty extensively that he and several Qwest execs were making false claims to the press to increase the Qwest share price so they could buy US West.