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Linus Torvalds: Software and Process Patents Don't Make Sense

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Re: Linus Torvalds: Software and Process Patents Don't Make Sense

#81
post #58
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What novel ideas did the One-Click patent cover? Seriously. I think we're overpaying. And we're not paying the actual creative types. And we're not paying for what's really useful, just what receives the paperwork and has enough lawyers to attack based on it. If we really wanted to do this right we'd have a big vote for the people who made things (even textbooks, etc, like Knuth) that made the biggest difference in t…

You're describing a patent system that functions as an achievement award. But that's not the purpose of a patent. Knuth already published his best work without the incentive of a patent. The extra award would not get him to publish a new volume of TAOCP any faster. Think of it this way: to function as intended, the patent system has to make it economically less attractive to closely hold inventions as trade secrets.…

I don't really understand your objection. If, instead of trying to impose an artificial scarcity on copyable works (which includes inventions), we had a pool of "awards" that were distributed to creators proportionally to the value of the works, then of course that would provide incentive to disclose copyable works. So what if Knuth would get paid for work he would have made available anyway? There are plenty of people in our economy getting paid to do what they love and would do for free/much less.

The main problem with the idea is that it eliminates negotiations between self interested parties as the means for value estimation. "Voting" on the most valuable works is quite simply a terrible idea. With copyrightable works, we could probably have some technological way (think DRM) of tracking popularity / frequency of use. But for patents, I'm not sure how it would work. I suppose that as long as you make it where the total tax levied on an individual to fund this system doesn't depend on how many or which works they used (though it could depend broadly on what they produce, what industry they are in, etc), they won't have an incentive to hide what they used. It's not at all clear to me that the difficulties inherent in such an approach are greater than those in current approach (which can be charitably describe as "a mess").

Re: Linus Torvalds: Software and Process Patents Don't Make Sense

#82
post #81
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're describing a patent system that functions as an achievement award. But that's not the purpose of a patent. Knuth already published his best work without the incentive of a patent. The extra award would not get him to publish a new volume of TAOCP any faster. Think of it this way: to function as intended, the patent system has to make it economically less attractive to closely hold inventions as trade secrets.…

I don't really understand your objection. If, instead of trying to impose an artificial scarcity on copyable works (which includes inventions), we had a pool of "awards" that were distributed to creators proportionally to the value of the works, then of course that would provide incentive to disclose copyable works. So what if Knuth would get paid for work he would have made available anyway? There are plenty of peop…

The notion behind patents is that if we didn't have them, society would be poorer off because people would invent things and then keep them secret, perhaps far longer than the term of a patent, like the formula for Coca Cola.

Re: Linus Torvalds: Software and Process Patents Don't Make Sense

#84
post #82
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really understand your objection. If, instead of trying to impose an artificial scarcity on copyable works (which includes inventions), we had a pool of "awards" that were distributed to creators proportionally to the value of the works, then of course that would provide incentive to disclose copyable works. So what if Knuth would get paid for work he would have made available anyway? There are plenty of peop…

The notion behind patents is that if we didn't have them, society would be poorer off because people would invent things and then keep them secret, perhaps far longer than the term of a patent, like the formula for Coca Cola.

That would also be the notion behind a system of awards for copyable works, so I'm not sure what your point is.

Re: Linus Torvalds: Software and Process Patents Don't Make Sense

#85
post #84
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The notion behind patents is that if we didn't have them, society would be poorer off because people would invent things and then keep them secret, perhaps far longer than the term of a patent, like the formula for Coca Cola.

That would also be the notion behind a system of awards for copyable works, so I'm not sure what your point is.

No, the award system that's being discussed leaves applicants with no certainty that they'll actually be compensated for disclosing. That's not the case with the patent system; subject to modifications, competent patent applicants are virtually certain to get a patent 7 years after applying.

Re: Linus Torvalds: Software and Process Patents Don't Make Sense

#86
post #85
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would also be the notion behind a system of awards for copyable works, so I'm not sure what your point is.

No, the award system that's being discussed leaves applicants with no certainty that they'll actually be compensated for disclosing. That's not the case with the patent system; subject to modifications, competent patent applicants are virtually certain to get a patent 7 years after applying.

The existing patent system doesn't guarantee you'll be compensated. In fact, most patents are worthless. The award system could easily incorporate a patent scheme, based either or first to file or first to invent. The important difference between this system and our current one is that licenses are not negotiated. Compensation is decided after the fact based on actual use.

Re: Linus Torvalds: Software and Process Patents Don't Make Sense

#87
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I accept that this quote doesn't give his reasons. However, I have to agree with him. My reasons are that Java is slow and bloated.

Why do so many people say Java is slow? What's slow? In fact Java compares fairly well against pretty much everything except C. It's a memory hog, but it sure isn't slow, whatever that means.

Not against JavaScript or PyPy, from what I've seen.

Re: Linus Torvalds: Software and Process Patents Don't Make Sense

#88
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do so many people say Java is slow? What's slow? In fact Java compares fairly well against pretty much everything except C. It's a memory hog, but it sure isn't slow, whatever that means.

Not against JavaScript or PyPy, from what I've seen.

Like this one http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64/benchmark.php?test=all... ?

also interesting:

http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64/which-programming-lang...

Re: Linus Torvalds: Software and Process Patents Don't Make Sense

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many patent lawyers are there in Congress? I'd be surprised if it's more than one or two.

> How many patent lawyers are there in Congress? How did you get "patent lawyers" from my statement of "lawyers"? It doesn't take much to recognize that folks in the legal profession are going to be pro-legal structure.

Why would a non-patent lawyer have any interest in preserving the "current Byzantine system"?

Re: Linus Torvalds: Software and Process Patents Don't Make Sense

#90
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you LOOKED at the patent system as it exists today? It does not even REMOTELY look like what you described.

I have no idea how to respond to this comment. It doesn't contain any new information, and the question is extremely broad. "Yes", I guess. And, "I don't entirely agree or disagree with you".

I think the solution was not replying to it.

Sometimes people say silly stuff that isn't particularly relevant. They're making a mistake. You don't have to explain it.

If you do, maybe someone like me who is interested in meta topics like conversation itself will appreciate it, and maybe you'll enjoy writing it, but you can't expect it to further the conversation you were having, and can't really expect the silly person to learn much.

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