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Absurd Trolley Problems

neal.fun

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Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#491

Post by UweSchmidt »

_nalply wrote: post #319

This was quite easy for me. The principles: 1. Only pull the lever if you are sure. With an action you assume responsibility for the outcome. 2. Don't believe everything what you see or are told. If you doubt do nothing. Imagine you killed many people because you have been lied to and pulled the lever. In this case it is better you did nothing. 3. An action of yours might kill someone. This is a very heavy responsibi…

re #4: There are many instances of people sacrificing themselves to save others, Chernobyl workers, figher pilots not ejecting but steering the plane away flightshow visitors etc.

I expect these people to act this way routinely, give hazard pay to their entire profession to compensate for the risk, but likewise consider it my obligation to act likewise when the situation is clear (like in the Trolley Problem).

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#492

Post by McBeige »

fedeb95 wrote: post #418

Now you all be honest and admit the one that took you longer to solve was the one with the life savings

I have no savings, but that's probably cheating. I know I'd sacrifice your life savings in a heartbeat, does that count? ;)

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#494

Post by darkerside »

littlestymaar wrote: post #454
_nalply wrote: post #319

This was quite easy for me. The principles: 1. Only pull the lever if you are sure. With an action you assume responsibility for the outcome. 2. Don't believe everything what you see or are told. If you doubt do nothing. Imagine you killed many people because you have been lied to and pulled the lever. In this case it is better you did nothing. 3. An action of yours might kill someone. This is a very heavy responsibi…

> 4. If my life is at stake, I pull the lever to save myself. I find this answer really interesting, because in the entire corpus, this was the most morally unambiguous question of all, and the answer is diametrically opposed to yours. Would have I the courage to do so in real life, I don't know, and it's probable that I would not. But from a moral perspective it's damn clear: the only people I am unambiguously allow…

Interestingly, I had almost the opposite reaction. In the absence of information, I don't know how these people got here or why. Maybe they're being executed as criminals, maybe they are suicide attempts, maybe they are truly heinous people in the hands of a Just God.

But, I do know, if it's me on the track, I don't want to die. It's almost the only truly inarguable choice. With everything else, you think you know best for other people. With that one, you just know you don't want to die.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#495

Post by [deleted] »

SpEd3Y wrote: post #429

Andrzej Sapkowski in the Witcher books, through Geralt, said something that might apply to this situation: "Evil is evil [...] Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I’m not a pious hermit. I haven't done only good in my life. But if I’m to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all" Thoughts? :)

[deleted]

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#496

Post by alliao »

jgerrish wrote: post #363

This kind of highlights a subtle interactive design or user experience component of the Trolley problem. Part of the Trolley Problem is that the choice is between an action or inaction. But these problems, or the first one at least, have two buttons. So you're making a choice. Yeah, some might argue it's a technicality. But what if you put the Do Nothing choice on a timer? What if you made it an asynchronous "Problem…

I've played some Japanese games where indecisiveness is represented as inaction and is one of the option, first time realising it definitely upped the ante

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#497

Post by vlaaad »

SpEd3Y wrote: post #429

Andrzej Sapkowski in the Witcher books, through Geralt, said something that might apply to this situation: "Evil is evil [...] Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I’m not a pious hermit. I haven't done only good in my life. But if I’m to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all" Thoughts? :)

This quote is very popular, but the moral of the story you are referencing is the opposite. Geralt rejects this point of view at the end, because inaction is also action.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#498

Post by darkerside »

joshschreuder wrote: post #449
stackbutterflow wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're stuck in a loop for eternity, implying they'll never die, does it mean the trolley is going at light speed?

I interpreted it as the passengers would go round in circles for eternity, but not necessarily living passengers. I assumed they would die of hunger and dehydration which seemed less humane than instantaneous death by explosion.

What if they have renewable food and drink, a thriving economy, and the ability to reproduce?

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#499

Post by darkerside »

nly wrote: post #488
JonathanFly wrote: post #21

>Oh no! Due to a construction error, a trolley is stuck in an eternal loop. If you pull the lever the trolley will explode, and if you don't the trolley and it's passengers will go in circles for eternity. What do you do? 50% of people pull the lever?!? I hereby declare that if I'm ever going to be stuck in a trolley for my entire life, I do NOT want the lever pulled. Toss me a smartphone charger and my life wouldn't…

My reasoning was someone onboard might make a valuable contribution to the world even if they are stuck on the trolley, and the cost to the rest of society for letting it run seemed small.

Seems like you could always pull the lever later!

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#500

Post by darkerside »

gwd wrote: post #338
bobsmooth wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're stuck on a trolley.

...but do I have an internet connection and a laptop? When they invent VR, can I have one of those?

Passengers implies there are other people. Some find human interaction entertaining.
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