Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Absurd Trolley Problems

neal.fun

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 951 posts

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#251

Post by TrapLord_Rhodo »

epgui wrote: post #240
TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A trolley is heading towards 5 people who tied themselves to the track. My reading of this was that they were suicidal. If people want to kill themselves, that's not for me to decide if that's right, or wrong. But if i can save one person from misfortune, atleast i was ablee to do that. >70% would rather send a trolley into the future to kill 5 people 100 years from now, instead of 5 people now. Would you rather hav…

> Humans are compounding I had the same thought, but this isn't necessarily true. With money, it's true by design. Interest rates, inflation and money expansion are core components of the economy. However, with humans it all depends on the fertility rate, and it's currently dropping. So in this scenario, there's a lot we don't know about the future. I sent the trolley into the future because, all else being equal, at…

Eh, I don't really buy the whole fertility rate, depopulation stuff that Elon and the like have been disputing. I truly believe that was him signaling support for abortion ban without him signalling support for it.

One thing has been constant through history, population growth. I have seen no evidence that this is slowing, only that 'Developed nations' are having less kids. People seem to forget that develop nations don't really represent 'the world' as a whole. Southeast asia, India, rural parts of China, South America do not seem to have this problem and they represent that majority of the world as much as the west would like to hide that fact.

Also, we've already proved that artificial womb technology is theoretically possible... it's only a matter of a few generations until thats going to be abused.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#252

Post by Akronymus »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #197
ipnon wrote: post #189

My favorite variation is: A trolley is heading towards a line of people corresponding to every natural number. You can pull a lever and divert the trolley towards a line of people corresponding to every real number between 0 and 1. What do you do?

hmmm.. i'm not a very mathy person but seems like an interesting question. Aren't they both just infinite? There's no such thing as a bigger inifinite? thinking about it out loud here tho I would say that every natural number is a BIGGER number than every real number between 0-1 because, well, 2 is bigger than 0-1. but then again since you said corresponding to every number.... 0.000000to infiniitiy -1 is a number in…

> There's no such thing as a bigger inifinite?

Well, that is where the fun starts.

Take every natural number, assign a unique real between 0 and 1 to it. Put all of them under each other. Now take the 1st digit of the first number, 2nd of the 2nd and so on, set it to a different digit than the one you took.

Now you have a new, unique, real (Because it differs in at least one digit with every other real taken so far) but no more natural to assign it to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor%27s_diagonal_argument

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elvOZm0d4H0

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#253

Post by not2b »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #170
paxys wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are discounting the simple possibility that 70% of respondents do not have any significant "life savings" to speak of.

Not to mention a lot of people measure account their wealth in more than just money. Reminds me of Richard Posner, former Chief Justice of the Seventh Appelate court. His essay on how poor people have no wealth so you need the threat of prison to keep them in line. And how middle class people you only need the threat of impoverishment to keep them in line. So you can just fine them. And wealthy people only need the t…

Evidently he also didn't know anything about rich people. If they manage to damage their reputations then they figure a good PR firm and some contributions to the right places will take care of that for them.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#254

Post by gundamdoubleO »

everfree wrote: post #98

I'm surprised to see the popular answer to Question 3. > Oh no! A trolley is heading towards 5 people. You can pull the lever to divert it to the other track, but then your life savings will be destroyed. What do you do? Over 70% chose to pull the lever and destroy their life savings. People die of preventable causes in developing countries today. By choosing not to donate your life savings today to help them, you ar…

Maybe I don't want to watch a bunch of people die

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#255

Post by thriftwy »

tmlb wrote: post #30
JonathanFly wrote: post #21

>Oh no! Due to a construction error, a trolley is stuck in an eternal loop. If you pull the lever the trolley will explode, and if you don't the trolley and it's passengers will go in circles for eternity. What do you do? 50% of people pull the lever?!? I hereby declare that if I'm ever going to be stuck in a trolley for my entire life, I do NOT want the lever pulled. Toss me a smartphone charger and my life wouldn't…

Would your answer change if you were stuck on the trolley quite literally for eternity, rather than just the remainder of your biological life?

If I live for an eternity I figure out how to make my own big bangs eventually, all while still being on the trolley.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#256

Post by bergenty »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #197
ipnon wrote: post #189

My favorite variation is: A trolley is heading towards a line of people corresponding to every natural number. You can pull a lever and divert the trolley towards a line of people corresponding to every real number between 0 and 1. What do you do?

hmmm.. i'm not a very mathy person but seems like an interesting question. Aren't they both just infinite? There's no such thing as a bigger inifinite? thinking about it out loud here tho I would say that every natural number is a BIGGER number than every real number between 0-1 because, well, 2 is bigger than 0-1. but then again since you said corresponding to every number.... 0.000000to infiniitiy -1 is a number in…

There is such as thing as a bigger infinite and it does make sense but it’s kind of dumb.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#257

Post by Akronymus »

grayfaced wrote: post #75

I wonder what would happen for the bribe problem if the rich man wasn't on the track at all. I feel the unfairness of comparing the relative value of rich life vs poor life compels people to reject the bribe. But if it was simple bribe to kill with the other side being empty, then it becomes a measure of the worth of a life.

For me, him offering the bribe made me refuse to divert the trolley.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#258

Post by kazinator »

paxys wrote: post #12

Level 20 was weird. It was a choice between letting a trolley run as normal ("emits CO2, kills 3 people in accidents over 30 years") or running it into a brick wall and decommissioning it. For some reason more people picked the latter. So, they just dislike public transit? What about the emissions and death rate when everyone switches to cars instead? Goes to show how easily the context and exact wording of a questio…

Remember that around 12% preferred that someone die, rather than their Amazon package being late.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#259

Post by Akronymus »

sh4rks wrote: post #175
c3534l wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that its so low is kind of disturbing, and the fact that you're so cynical about it being so high means maybe you should reassess your values.

Values don't mean anything if you're dead. Five complete strangers? Knowing how terrible people are, they would probably save themselves too if they could. Every man for himself.

> Knowing how terrible people are,...

I am probably just as terrible in their eyes.

Post reply on HN