Absurd Trolley Problems • Hacker News Board

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#171

Post by throwaway787544 » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:52 AM UTC

lettergram wrote: post #107

I always found the trolley problem interesting. It usually boils down to who believes in karma or a creator or not. Most religions have the idea that it’s different to take a life than to stand by and do nothing. For instance, you should always try to help others (save a life), pretty much above all else. However, to take a life, requires taking action. Ie standing by as someone drowns is not the same as sticking som…

You're assuming free will though. It could be that nobody made their bed, and you're just doing what was preordained, but chalking it up to free will to feel better. Maybe you could live with anything. Maybe the information is a facade, and never really makes a difference, because you'll always just do what you were going to do anyway.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#172

Post by stickfigure » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:52 AM UTC

JonathanFly wrote: post #21

>Oh no! Due to a construction error, a trolley is stuck in an eternal loop. If you pull the lever the trolley will explode, and if you don't the trolley and it's passengers will go in circles for eternity. What do you do? 50% of people pull the lever?!? I hereby declare that if I'm ever going to be stuck in a trolley for my entire life, I do NOT want the lever pulled. Toss me a smartphone charger and my life wouldn't…

They might even write songs about you!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsqBtZNBL60

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#173

Post by vkou » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:52 AM UTC

DuskStar wrote: post #5

csours wrote: post #3

Oh no! A pandemic virus is spreading throughout the world, do you take sensible precautions and get vaccinated when it's your turn, or do nothing? What if you don't know exactly what the lever does? What if pulling the lever makes all the infants in the world cry for an hour straight? What if pulling the lever only saves a life one time in 1000, but it sprains your wrist 1 time in 10. What if the sensible precautions…

What if pulling the lever has a 50 percent chance of reducing deaths, but always eliminates societal cohesion and trust?

What if the elimination of the societal cohesion and trust was the product of a cynical, self-serving multi-decade political movement and propaganda campaign, and had only a little to do with pulling the lever, but the people who pulled the lever got most of the blame for it?

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#174

Post by JetAlone » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:52 AM UTC

chomp wrote: post #28

_virtu wrote: post #15

The question regarding baby vs old people was really telling. It’s practically the argument for / against abortion. What’s strange to me is that someone would choose to kill five people who are capable of thought instead of an undeveloped human being. But I suppose that’s why we’re seeing the reversal of Roe v Wade being supported. Sigh, fuckin religion.

You're way, way overthinking it. The world isn't black and white, this is a game, and there's always more choices than just two. I'm pro choice and my choice was to run over the old people.

In virtu's defence, it's difficult to avoid overthinking things in this day and age. We've been conditioned to look for the overlap with our politics in so much that it consumes many of us. Culture wars take heavy psychological tolls on the participants.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#175

Post by sh4rks » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:53 AM UTC

c3534l wrote: post #69

thirdplace_ wrote: post #16

59% would sacrifice their own life for five people? Someone been messing with the votes.

The fact that its so low is kind of disturbing, and the fact that you're so cynical about it being so high means maybe you should reassess your values.

Values don't mean anything if you're dead. Five complete strangers? Knowing how terrible people are, they would probably save themselves too if they could. Every man for himself.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#176

Post by jedberg » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:53 AM UTC

throwawayarnty wrote: post #105

I never understood how the trolley problem applies to real life. When is there ever a situation where you have perfect and complete information about a scenario? Only in thought experiments. The situation where the boxes are probabilistic was more realistic. You’re never sure in real life that you will certainly do less harm if you pull vs not pull.

The original trolly problem showed that people find it less repressible to kill people when no action is taken. It's presented both ways. "Pull the lever and kill five to save one" and "pull the lever to kill one and save five". You'd think that people would answer to kill one person in both cases, but it turns out people are biased against taking action (pulling the lever) regardless of how you word it, and so when it's worded as kill five if you do nothing, a lot of people will do nothing.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#177

Post by brewdad » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:55 AM UTC

tbrownaw wrote: post #91

There is one person in front of the trolley, and five people on the side track. But nobody knows that you saw the five people, and there's video of you noticing the one person.

My kid, college aged, scored lower than me by simply saying "not my problem". Says a lot about bystander syndrome.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#178

Post by sejje » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:57 AM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #163

JonathanFly wrote: post #21

>Oh no! Due to a construction error, a trolley is stuck in an eternal loop. If you pull the lever the trolley will explode, and if you don't the trolley and it's passengers will go in circles for eternity. What do you do? 50% of people pull the lever?!? I hereby declare that if I'm ever going to be stuck in a trolley for my entire life, I do NOT want the lever pulled. Toss me a smartphone charger and my life wouldn't…

I pulled the lever. I didn't want to condemn the passengers to an eternity of monotony.

I would love to be in there. Truly.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#179

Post by JonathanFly » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:57 AM UTC

everfree wrote: post #98

I'm surprised to see the popular answer to Question 3. > Oh no! A trolley is heading towards 5 people. You can pull the lever to divert it to the other track, but then your life savings will be destroyed. What do you do? Over 70% chose to pull the lever and destroy their life savings. People die of preventable causes in developing countries today. By choosing not to donate your life savings today to help them, you ar…

Silly random thoughts that went through my head at this question

1) Many people's life savings is 0. A bargain!

2) If _I_ were one of the five people, I'd try and make it up to the lever puller. Lever-guy might even come out ahead.

3) If I pull this lever right away in question 3, if there are later questions about giving up my life savings, they'll be free. This might be the value lever pull! I might be kicking myself later for missing this deal.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#180

Post by Sirened » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:58 AM UTC

everfree wrote: post #98

I'm surprised to see the popular answer to Question 3. > Oh no! A trolley is heading towards 5 people. You can pull the lever to divert it to the other track, but then your life savings will be destroyed. What do you do? Over 70% chose to pull the lever and destroy their life savings. People die of preventable causes in developing countries today. By choosing not to donate your life savings today to help them, you ar…

I think a lot of people would also be fully willing to pay not to have to witness five people get hit by a train