New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws • Hacker News Board

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#131

Post by atoav » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:29 AM UTC

bjt2n3904 wrote: post #44

noduerme wrote: post #22

I object to driving any car with a built-in GPS or an internet connection, on basic privacy grounds. It amazes me how many advocacy groups and organizations [edit: and bicycle fans right here on HN!] are willing to completely demolish essential rights like privacy and freedom of movement, in the name of preventing speeding accidents.

That's their excuse. It's very "think of the children".

Contrary to other "think of the children"-scenarios this one has an actual death number tacked to it.

And you might not be surprised, that children dying in traffic accidents does happen.extremely frequent. But forget the children, this also infringes on rights of regular people like me. Your right to drive around 2 tons of steel and plastics don't outweigh my right to not get killed by any stretch of the imagination.

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#132

Post by noduerme » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:29 AM UTC

athrun wrote: post #66

noduerme wrote: post #22

I object to driving any car with a built-in GPS or an internet connection, on basic privacy grounds. It amazes me how many advocacy groups and organizations [edit: and bicycle fans right here on HN!] are willing to completely demolish essential rights like privacy and freedom of movement, in the name of preventing speeding accidents.

The counter-argument to this is that driving a 2-ton machine capable of killing people is not a fundamental right either. I'm not saying that this isn't a privacy overreach and I think there are other things we can do to limit speeds (road design, etc.), but I think there's a reasonable balance to be found here.

Then take away the need for "real ID" to board planes and trains. Without the ability to travel freely, you end up very quickly with this:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-61793149

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#133

Post by atoav » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:31 AM UTC

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #61

Duralias wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but legally you aren't allowed to do that. Also why is it safer? To me a predictable speed would be safer.

>Also why is it safer? Because you spend less time and less distance in the "wrong" lane.

Which you should not have entered in the first place.

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#134

Post by atoav » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:32 AM UTC

alatkins wrote: post #25

WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name two

Safety when overtaking. Wife in labor.

Just call an ambulance (we are speaking about Europe here).

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#135

Post by noduerme » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:33 AM UTC

throwntoday wrote: post #68

noduerme wrote: post #22

I object to driving any car with a built-in GPS or an internet connection, on basic privacy grounds. It amazes me how many advocacy groups and organizations [edit: and bicycle fans right here on HN!] are willing to completely demolish essential rights like privacy and freedom of movement, in the name of preventing speeding accidents.

Good thing you're not carrying one into the car either

when I want to. Point is, when I don't want to I don't have my car auto-braked because someone decided I was driving to a protest.

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#136

Post by noduerme » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:35 AM UTC

atoav wrote: post #131

bjt2n3904 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's their excuse. It's very "think of the children".

Contrary to other "think of the children"-scenarios this one has an actual death number tacked to it. And you might not be surprised, that children dying in traffic accidents does happen.extremely frequent. But forget the children, this also infringes on rights of regular people like me. Your right to drive around 2 tons of steel and plastics don't outweigh my right to not get killed by any stretch of the imagination…

For the last time, my comment is not about the privilege of people to drive (which you seem to want to abolish?) it's about the right to move around without being tracked. Also, it is about your rights to privacy if you should want to exercise them.

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#137

Post by atoav » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:40 AM UTC

PradeetPatel wrote: post #75

hourago wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But lives will be saved, that is worth the lost in revenue.

Do you have any statistics to back that claim up? E.g. loss of workforce / strain put on the healthcare system vs revenue from traffic policing.

Not the OP but this is pretty much a no-brainer: over your life, do you pay more in taxes or in speeding tickets?

Now think about it that way: that car you bought, in which way did you buying that car also produce revenue for the state? Right, even more taxes. The state might also have already invested into your life, e.g. in the form of public education. And we are not speaking about health system, damages to streets and infrastructure, firefighters having to clear the road, firefighters having to go to therapy to deal with the trauma of the sight you gave them etc.

It makes zero sense for the state to pick a few speeding tickets over what is a chain of bad (potentially life-long) cost.

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#138

Post by cypress66 » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:41 AM UTC

Gigachad wrote: post #97

cromulent wrote: post #69

It won’t stop them from speeding. “The ISA system is required to work with the driver and not to restrict his/her possibility to act in any moment during driving. The driver is always in control and can easily override the ISA system.” https://road-safety-charter.ec.europa.eu/resources-knowledge...

Most speeding is unintentional. This will help the vast majority. The rest can he handled through enforcement of existing laws.

> Most speeding is unintentional

Source?

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#139

Post by andreareina » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:52 AM UTC

atoav wrote: post #126

userbinator wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First it's optional. Then they make it increasingly harder to disable. Then they make it mandatory. Surely everyone who has experienced abusive changes in software can see that pattern from a mile away? They aren't going to roast the frog, but instead boil it very slowly...

Ok I'll bite. The single most thing I hate about driving car in Germany is the lack of an upper speed limit on big stretches of the Autobahn. If you cross over from any neighbouring country any driver will notice that what before was a friendly chugging along now has become a stressful battle between people who just want to go somewhere with a good compromise of speed and fuel use and speedsters who will breath up yo…

I thought the consensus is that speed bumps don't help, except in the very near vicinity of the bump? That's what I observe anyway.

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#140

Post by cypress66 » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 5:53 AM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #115

userbinator wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll be as inefficient as I want, because I'm paying for my own fuel.

Right, I was stating a reason why a rational person would not want to drive at excessive speeds, as the comment asked.

Why do you assume what's rational and what's not? There are plenty of situations where arriving sooner is more rational and important than saving gas.

(leaving aside legality or safety)