Absurd Trolley Problems • Hacker News Board

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#41

Post by porphyra » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 4:31 AM UTC

paxys wrote: post #12

Level 20 was weird. It was a choice between letting a trolley run as normal ("emits CO2, kills 3 people in accidents over 30 years") or running it into a brick wall and decommissioning it. For some reason more people picked the latter. So, they just dislike public transit? What about the emissions and death rate when everyone switches to cars instead? Goes to show how easily the context and exact wording of a questio…

True but America as a nation did in fact decommission many trolleys so it seems this line of thinking is very common.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#42

Post by JonathanFly » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 4:31 AM UTC

tmlb wrote: post #30

JonathanFly wrote: post #21

>Oh no! Due to a construction error, a trolley is stuck in an eternal loop. If you pull the lever the trolley will explode, and if you don't the trolley and it's passengers will go in circles for eternity. What do you do? 50% of people pull the lever?!? I hereby declare that if I'm ever going to be stuck in a trolley for my entire life, I do NOT want the lever pulled. Toss me a smartphone charger and my life wouldn't…

Would your answer change if you were stuck on the trolley quite literally for eternity, rather than just the remainder of your biological life?

If it were truly the one single opportunity I will ever have to choose to stop existing, it's a tougher choice for sure.

But on the other hand, I might be so curious about what in the heck happened in the world outside - the world that led to this universe where it will be impossible for me to die for eternity, and somehow I know this with absolute 100% certainty - that I still opt out.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#43

Post by harha » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 4:31 AM UTC

arczyx wrote: post #35

paxys wrote: post #12

Level 20 was weird. It was a choice between letting a trolley run as normal ("emits CO2, kills 3 people in accidents over 30 years") or running it into a brick wall and decommissioning it. For some reason more people picked the latter. So, they just dislike public transit? What about the emissions and death rate when everyone switches to cars instead? Goes to show how easily the context and exact wording of a questio…

> For some reason more people picked the latter. So, they just dislike public transit? I mean, it seems like it's the same trolley that have run over a lot of people for the previous 19 levels, why wouldn't I want to decommission such bloodthirsty trolley?

Curious if that would end the game (though not enough to try again)

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#44

Post by throwaway744678 » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 4:32 AM UTC

irrational wrote: post #29

gverrilla wrote: post #17

Not many people care about Mona Lisa lmao

We have lots of detailed images of it. If the real thing is destroyed, oh well.

Also, it was put in The Blockchain, so we're good.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#45

Post by thrtythreeforty » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 4:32 AM UTC

thirdplace_ wrote: post #16

59% would sacrifice their own life for five people? Someone been messing with the votes.

I too was surprised. My gut reaction is this is "my guy" syndrome where people are still reasoning in the third person even though the problem says "you" - if you were to mad-scientist this experiment I bet you'd have a near 100% self-preservation response.

On the other hand, some of the responses have a small contingent disagreeing, and to explain those I would remind you of the Lizardman Constant [1]. That is, some pollsters just want to watch the statistics burn.

[1]: https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/12/noisy-poll-results-and...

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#46

Post by behringer » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 4:32 AM UTC

JonathanFly wrote: post #21

>Oh no! Due to a construction error, a trolley is stuck in an eternal loop. If you pull the lever the trolley will explode, and if you don't the trolley and it's passengers will go in circles for eternity. What do you do? 50% of people pull the lever?!? I hereby declare that if I'm ever going to be stuck in a trolley for my entire life, I do NOT want the lever pulled. Toss me a smartphone charger and my life wouldn't…

They made a show about this called snow piercer.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#47

Post by 22c » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 4:34 AM UTC

_virtu wrote: post #15

The question regarding baby vs old people was really telling. It’s practically the argument for / against abortion. What’s strange to me is that someone would choose to kill five people who are capable of thought instead of an undeveloped human being. But I suppose that’s why we’re seeing the reversal of Roe v Wade being supported. Sigh, fuckin religion.

You can't really boil down trolley problems into "Would you kill x or y?".

Generally someone is already in the way of the trolley, so the question is more like "Would you kill x in order to save y?".

So you could ask people this:

Would you kill a baby to save 5 elderly people?

Would you kill 5 elderly people to save a baby?

How people answer these questions does not really have anything to do with abortion.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#48

Post by mediumdeviation » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 4:36 AM UTC

templaedhel wrote: post #32

This feels like a great introduction to the “Lizardman’s constant” ( https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/12/noisy-poll-results-and... ) > Lizardman’s Constant is an idea proposed by Scott Alexander that each poll always has about 4% weird answers. In one poll, 4% of Americans said that reptilian people do control our world and, in another 4% answered ‘Yes’ to the question ‘Have you ever been decapitated?’

That’s strangely a whole 3 percentage points higher than the number of Americans who self identify as ‘evil’ (on the D&D alignment chart) - see 4:47 at https://fivethirtyeight.com/videos/where-americans-fall-on-t..., although at this point we’re probably well within polling margin of error.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#49

Post by IIAOPSW » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 4:36 AM UTC

arczyx wrote: post #35

paxys wrote: post #12

Level 20 was weird. It was a choice between letting a trolley run as normal ("emits CO2, kills 3 people in accidents over 30 years") or running it into a brick wall and decommissioning it. For some reason more people picked the latter. So, they just dislike public transit? What about the emissions and death rate when everyone switches to cars instead? Goes to show how easily the context and exact wording of a questio…

> For some reason more people picked the latter. So, they just dislike public transit? I mean, it seems like it's the same trolley that have run over a lot of people for the previous 19 levels, why wouldn't I want to decommission such bloodthirsty trolley?

You know, that's a very good question...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in...

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#50

Post by makeitdouble » Wed, Jul 06, 2022, 4:36 AM UTC

tmlb wrote: post #30

JonathanFly wrote: post #21

>Oh no! Due to a construction error, a trolley is stuck in an eternal loop. If you pull the lever the trolley will explode, and if you don't the trolley and it's passengers will go in circles for eternity. What do you do? 50% of people pull the lever?!? I hereby declare that if I'm ever going to be stuck in a trolley for my entire life, I do NOT want the lever pulled. Toss me a smartphone charger and my life wouldn't…

Would your answer change if you were stuck on the trolley quite literally for eternity, rather than just the remainder of your biological life?

On a serious note, it feels worse in every case that the end of your life is in the hand of an external actor.

Best case scenario you can do what you want and deal with whatever urge you have at your pace. Worst case scenario you don't have agency, and just stay stuck suffering instead of dying. Personally I'd take the chance.