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New EU rules on car speed limiters coming into force

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Re: New EU rules on car speed limiters coming into force

#11

Post by steveBK123 »

Hanschri wrote: post #9
ukoki wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems incredibly dangerous. Imagine some bad GPS reading warps you from a highway to a school dropoff zone and decelerates you to 20mph

I find it hard to believe that the car would base that solely on GPS readings, it will likely be a combination of multiple systems, including cameras which read signage as you pass it, which is already commonplace in many newer models.

Then you’ve never driven a Tesla :-)

On autopilot they do periodically do absolutely insane stuff like this due to bad map data, gps drift, lack of recent speed sign reading etc

And they are supposed to be best in class

Re: New EU rules on car speed limiters coming into force

#12

Post by yadaeno »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #8
yadaeno wrote: post #6

This is great, data shows that beeping is effective for increasing seatbelts usage, I see no reason why this wouldn't apply to speeding. I hope they take this a step further. Cars should not be able to exceed 90mph unless you have a special license for the track. 99.9% of drivers are not tracking their car and theres absolutely no reason a 6000lb pick up truck needs to go 150mph under any circumstance. https://www.nc…

Unlike the seatbelt chime which is easy to address, speeding beeps would be maddening. Everybody speeds at some point while driving somewhere. Not all speeding is reckless. As far as making someone get a special track license, that just seems like overkill.

"Speeding was a factor in 29% of all traffic fatalities in 2020, killing 11,258, or an average of over 30 people per day."

Im not saying beeping will stop all of this but I think its a large low hanging fruit in terms of road safety. You will strongly disagree with this but mandatory breathalyzers are another.

I would love if these rules were not necessary but drivers (in the US at least) have proven that they are not responsible in aggregate.

I dont think anyone disagrees with speed limits, I dont understand the moral panic that comes from taking it a step further and building it into the car.

Youre right about needing to speed sometimes though, maybe they need to add a 15% buffer or some kind of "10/10 data points in the last 5 mins required" condition.

https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/motor-vehicle-safe...

Re: New EU rules on car speed limiters coming into force

#13

Post by belorn »

> ISA detects speed limits on roads through devices such as cameras and satnavs.

My car will regularly detect speed signs that are adjacent to the highway, including those next to interchanges and exists. On many other occasion the camera detects signs from parallel roads and railroads, where the sign sits simply on the other side of a chain fence.

Naturally as a human driver I know that 170km/h doesn't exist on roads, or that a 30km/h isn't a legal speed for highway (except if there is road maintenance or accidents, which has their own contextual clues), but the computer don't know that. Trying to make computers understand context is the running theme of most failures in self driving cars.

The only way I could see a speed limiter like this would work is if there were a central control system with local knowledge of the road and those on the road, similar to how a subway control, airport control or rail way control works. cameras and satnavs is only good as an advising tool for an human operative.

Re: New EU rules on car speed limiters coming into force

#14

Post by efaref »

enlyth wrote: post #5
galdosdi wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minus the word "incredibly" which is quite an exaggeration, I agree. But, it can be made pretty safe. Entirely safe in fact, for good drivers (less so for shoddy ones) The fine details of implementation are not noted so we can only speculate. I would hope it's designed to very gradually start limiting the speed after X seconds of alerting the driver. That said, even the most naive design, which would work the same as…

I actually wouldn't mind a thing like this that I can manually enable, I am constantly afraid of accidentally speeding and always have my satnav on so it shows the max speed (here in the UK we get penalty points, not just fines, and enough of them can mean you have a temp ban from driving). Don't really like the idea of this being automatically triggered and enforced though.

Automatic triggering seems like a recipe for disaster. My car has a version of this that shows the current speed limit on the display. It is frequently wrong. A road near me shows up as 20mph despite being 30 or 40 in different parts. Other times it sees signs for access roads or side roads and misinterpret them as for the current road (sometimes saying 20mph in a 60mph zone).

It's a nice idea, but the tech really isn't there yet. I guess a few high profile incidents and they'll be forced to fix it.

Re: New EU rules on car speed limiters coming into force

#15

Post by adhesive_wombat »

enlyth wrote: post #5
galdosdi wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minus the word "incredibly" which is quite an exaggeration, I agree. But, it can be made pretty safe. Entirely safe in fact, for good drivers (less so for shoddy ones) The fine details of implementation are not noted so we can only speculate. I would hope it's designed to very gradually start limiting the speed after X seconds of alerting the driver. That said, even the most naive design, which would work the same as…

I actually wouldn't mind a thing like this that I can manually enable, I am constantly afraid of accidentally speeding and always have my satnav on so it shows the max speed (here in the UK we get penalty points, not just fines, and enough of them can mean you have a temp ban from driving). Don't really like the idea of this being automatically triggered and enforced though.

> enough of them can mean you have a temp ban from driving

And it's not a lot. Being caught a bit over 3 times will lose you a licence, or 2 if you're a new driver. Sometimes you can get an awareness course and get a "pass" on the first time but I think only once every few years. Exceed the limit by too much and you don't get that option and you also get more points. You also will find insurance punishingly expensive for years afterwards.

Re: New EU rules on car speed limiters coming into force

#17

Post by belorn »

yadaeno wrote: post #6

This is great, data shows that beeping is effective for increasing seatbelts usage, I see no reason why this wouldn't apply to speeding. I hope they take this a step further. Cars should not be able to exceed 90mph unless you have a special license for the track. 99.9% of drivers are not tracking their car and theres absolutely no reason a 6000lb pick up truck needs to go 150mph under any circumstance. https://www.nc…

How often do your seatbelt warning give out false positives? How high false rate would people accept before they removed/rigged the device?

One major reason why ignition locks that uses breathalyzers has failed to gain popularity is false positives. Police always do a blood test after a positive breath test, because those breathalyzers have know faults when it comes to a number of substances, including bread, fruit, chewing gum, vanilla extract, vinegar and energy drinks...

Re: New EU rules on car speed limiters coming into force

#18

Post by dane-pgp »

Maybe one of the goals is to make driving so tedious that people happily adopt autonomous features.

If someone puts up a fake speed limit sign and tricks your self-driving car to travel 30 mph under the actual limit, then you might not care, if you're having a snooze on a nice reclining seat.

Still, I think it's not too early for governments to pass harsh laws against interfering with or obscuring road signs. With some clever networking and an open dataset, it might be possible for cars to detect such missing or altered signs within minutes of the crime being committed.

Re: New EU rules on car speed limiters coming into force

#19

Post by johnisgood »

yadaeno wrote: post #12
BitwiseFool wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike the seatbelt chime which is easy to address, speeding beeps would be maddening. Everybody speeds at some point while driving somewhere. Not all speeding is reckless. As far as making someone get a special track license, that just seems like overkill.

"Speeding was a factor in 29% of all traffic fatalities in 2020, killing 11,258, or an average of over 30 people per day." Im not saying beeping will stop all of this but I think its a large low hanging fruit in terms of road safety. You will strongly disagree with this but mandatory breathalyzers are another. I would love if these rules were not necessary but drivers (in the US at least) have proven that they are no…

He just told you though. Speeding happens, and there are many scenarios in which it is OK. Hearing the beeping might actually induce road rage... or not... I wonder though.

Re: New EU rules on car speed limiters coming into force

#20

Post by vasco »

yadaeno wrote: post #12
BitwiseFool wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike the seatbelt chime which is easy to address, speeding beeps would be maddening. Everybody speeds at some point while driving somewhere. Not all speeding is reckless. As far as making someone get a special track license, that just seems like overkill.

"Speeding was a factor in 29% of all traffic fatalities in 2020, killing 11,258, or an average of over 30 people per day." Im not saying beeping will stop all of this but I think its a large low hanging fruit in terms of road safety. You will strongly disagree with this but mandatory breathalyzers are another. I would love if these rules were not necessary but drivers (in the US at least) have proven that they are no…

> I dont think anyone disagrees with speed limits

Hello there, I disagree with speed limits on any highway, as well as most well built roads that don't have pedestrians adjacent. I'm not a civil engineer or traffic researcher, but I do disagree with them. Having ridden on the autobahn I also didn't feel less safe there.

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