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PulseAudio and Systemd Creator, Lennart Poettering, Reportedly Leaves Red Hat

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Re: PulseAudio and Systemd Creator, Lennart Poettering, Reportedly Leaves Red Hat

#61

Post by corrral »

sophacles wrote: post #56
shrubble wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The combination of unbridled arrogance along with the dubious technical merits of your all-or-nothing design decisions, can lead to that; so, hardly mystifying. Why does systemd need to mess with user processes and home directories? It was billed as a replacement for init.

Then don't use it. No one is forcing you, there exist alternatives. Attacking someone for making an optional thing seems kinda like the problem lies in you.

Might be worth pondering what Poettering and Red Hat did that make people hate their work so much, and to make Poettering uniquely infamous in the open source world. No-one's upset with the creators of dozens of other init systems and audio daemons, including ones that are pretty bad, and even ones that were promoted by major distro vendors.

Re: PulseAudio and Systemd Creator, Lennart Poettering, Reportedly Leaves Red Hat

#62

Post by zozbot234 »

_ofdw wrote: post #45
tpush wrote: post #21

My god the comments in this thread are terrible. How can grown ass adults be so pathetically mean to a single person because he wrote (free & gratis!) software they don't like. Seriously, it's mystifying.

>How can grown ass adults be so pathetically mean to a single person because he wrote (free & gratis!) software they don't like. Seriously, it's mystifying. Because he and his orbiters were extraordinarily arrogant and condescending about their software. And let's not forget that while it's pretty good now, in the early days systemd was not very good at all. Because things like GNOME 3 decided to make systemd a hard…

But it's not Poettering, it's the Gnome folks in general. These controversies have been around since the early Gnome 2.x days. Nothing much has changed.

What we really need is for people to propose alternatives to systemD that address its purported use cases while removing some of the needless complexity it introduces, and restoring the primacy of general mechanisms over hacked-together policy. This has happened with some components, e.g. elogind but not really as a comprehensive effort.

Re: PulseAudio and Systemd Creator, Lennart Poettering, Reportedly Leaves Red Hat

#63

Post by plorkyeran »

tpush wrote: post #21

My god the comments in this thread are terrible. How can grown ass adults be so pathetically mean to a single person because he wrote (free & gratis!) software they don't like. Seriously, it's mystifying.

At time of writing I don't see a single comment attacking him personally outside of the replies to you complaining about it. I was actually somewhat surprised to see the comments only complaining about his software (and even those are currently a minority of the comments) rather than going the usual route of calling him an awful person.

Re: PulseAudio and Systemd Creator, Lennart Poettering, Reportedly Leaves Red Hat

#65

Post by d0mine »

sophacles wrote: post #56
shrubble wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The combination of unbridled arrogance along with the dubious technical merits of your all-or-nothing design decisions, can lead to that; so, hardly mystifying. Why does systemd need to mess with user processes and home directories? It was billed as a replacement for init.

Then don't use it. No one is forcing you, there exist alternatives. Attacking someone for making an optional thing seems kinda like the problem lies in you.

you are kidding, right? It is like saying you can't critique US laws because you can move to Canada (technically true but it misses the point)

Re: PulseAudio and Systemd Creator, Lennart Poettering, Reportedly Leaves Red Hat

#66

Post by traverseda »

zozbot234 wrote: post #62
_ofdw wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How can grown ass adults be so pathetically mean to a single person because he wrote (free & gratis!) software they don't like. Seriously, it's mystifying. Because he and his orbiters were extraordinarily arrogant and condescending about their software. And let's not forget that while it's pretty good now, in the early days systemd was not very good at all. Because things like GNOME 3 decided to make systemd a hard…

But it's not Poettering, it's the Gnome folks in general. These controversies have been around since the early Gnome 2.x days. Nothing much has changed. What we really need is for people to propose alternatives to systemD that address its purported use cases while removing some of the needless complexity it introduces, and restoring the primacy of general mechanisms over hacked-together policy. This has happened with…

OpenRC and alpine are nice.

Re: PulseAudio and Systemd Creator, Lennart Poettering, Reportedly Leaves Red Hat

#67

Post by corrral »

traverseda wrote: post #66
zozbot234 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's not Poettering, it's the Gnome folks in general. These controversies have been around since the early Gnome 2.x days. Nothing much has changed. What we really need is for people to propose alternatives to systemD that address its purported use cases while removing some of the needless complexity it introduces, and restoring the primacy of general mechanisms over hacked-together policy. This has happened with…

OpenRC and alpine are nice.

OpenRC is the only Linux init I've used that I actually enjoyed using, not just could-tolerate.

Re: PulseAudio and Systemd Creator, Lennart Poettering, Reportedly Leaves Red Hat

#68

Post by vintermann »

mixedCase wrote: post #55
robonerd wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driver issues, right.. is that why my archived shell histories have hundreds if not thousands of entries for `pulseaudio --kill ; puslseaudio --start` ? Does restarting the userland sound daemon reset the drivers operating in kernel space? How would that work?

Have never used those APIs, but I would assume it'd happen if drivers fail to implement basic API promises and PulseAudio doesn't code defensively against those kind of bugs.

If drivers fail that disastrously to implement the APIs they say they implement, how did they end up in distributors' kernel trees?

Re: PulseAudio and Systemd Creator, Lennart Poettering, Reportedly Leaves Red Hat

#69

Post by esarbe »

corrral wrote: post #35
tpush wrote: post #21

My god the comments in this thread are terrible. How can grown ass adults be so pathetically mean to a single person because he wrote (free & gratis!) software they don't like. Seriously, it's mystifying.

People dislike his work for various reasons but are still forced to use it thanks, in part, to his employer promoting it aggressively (it's not like he did all this for free). That's a recipe for saltiness. Kinda like Bill Gates back in the day (remember that "Kill Bill" game, and other similar ones?)

No one is forced to use it - you can always switch distro.

I also use hyperbole as a rhetoric instrument but in text seldom works.

Re: PulseAudio and Systemd Creator, Lennart Poettering, Reportedly Leaves Red Hat

#70

Post by zh3 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #58
zh3 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stock Asus motherboards with on-board (Realtek, IIRC) audio (I tried aftermarket cards, though mostly after giving up on PulseAudio). Separately the company I worked for ditched it as well due to the issues, to be fair though in tnat case since they only needed a single - reliable - audio output so there was no case of PA anyway.

Yea that is because anything Realtek is an utterly brain-dead piece of crap and "quirks", and that on Windows . On Linux it's even more pain, mostly because OEMs don't bother to release the specific quirks their specialized Windows driver fork had applied. Don't even want to know how many Windows systems ship with outdated, possibly insecure Realtek drivers because the OEM long since stopped backporting fixes.

I appreciate that Realtek can be an issue, but on a few PCs they works solidly with Alsa so seems unlikely it's the kernel driver (restarting pulseaudio would bring it back, at least for a while). So it seems to me the issues are very much with Pulseaudio (rather than with the kernel).
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