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Car Quality Is Slipping

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Re: Car Quality Is Slipping

#81

Post by citizenpaul »

10000truths wrote: post #13
krnlpnc wrote: post #8

J.D. Power isn’t an unbiased review. There is zero chance that Dodge and Chevy have real world reliability greater than makes like Toyota, Honda and Mazda. They also play games like counting “problems” without a weight. Infotainment problem fixed in firmware and transmission problem both increment the count by 1?

There's a whole YouTube channel dedicated to satirizing Chevy commercials and their reliance on "real people" and J.D. Power marketing: https://www.youtube.com/c/ZebraCorner

This is the best part of my day and almost certainly my week. Haven't laughed that hard in a while.

Re: Car Quality Is Slipping

#82

Post by dispatchapp »

notacoward wrote: post #67
oldstrangers wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Subaru and the WRX is just notoriously unreliable, and that's always sort of been the case unfortunately.

The word among mechanics I've talked to is that yes, Subarus break down more often than other Japanese brands, but they're also cheap and easy to repair so the total cost is similar. The repair cost for even basic stuff on a Toyota is eye-watering.

Subaru just called me and said my shift fork and synchronizer, need to be replaced. Ironically, my extended warranty expired in Nov 2020 and I now have to pay nearly $5k to fix it! Better off getting a new tranny!

Re: Car Quality Is Slipping

#83

Post by _yb2s »

dispatchapp wrote: post #28

My 2014 WRX has had a myriad of reliability issues. Bone stock, always maintained, and just constantly going into the dealer for issues. Thankfully I have an extended warranty. Issue #1: 19k miles - OEM turbo blows. Subaru FSE determines a bearing seized prematurely. Turbo replaced. Issue #2: 23k miles - Replacement turbo starts making more sounds mimicking the same noises the OEM turbo made before it blew. Subaru re…

Your WRX makes 265hp from a 4 cylinder engine, that's as much power as Porsche was getting out of their 6 cylinder 2.7 engines at the time, in cars that cost far more...

The WRX is a really cheap family car with a small 4 cylinder engine tuned to the absolute performance limit with TONS of turbo boost, and the corresponding massive amounts of heat and stress that includes. I would expect it to be incredibly unreliable! Just a little unreliable is impressive. I'm always impressed about the interesting cars Subaru is willing to sell to the public (XT anyone?).

Re: Car Quality Is Slipping

#84

Post by exhilaration »

JasonFruit wrote: post #54
MisterTea wrote: post #14

Mo' tech mo' problems. Just give me a car that goes forward, backwards, left and right with a roof, windows, seats with few luxuries: air conditioning, power locks/windows, remote start (winter savior). For safety I will take ABS, maybe ESP. Leave me an industry standard DIN or double DIN opening for a radio and speaker locations; factory options always suck. Transmission can be manual or automatic. The rest is fluff…

I am looking for a new car big enough for a family and capable of pulling a loaded utility trailer, but without the extras. Basically exactly what's on your list, but I don't need power windows and locks or remote start. Does it exist?

How big is your family? The Toyota Sienna is available with a tow package (larger radiator, alternator, and transmission oil cooler) and can tow up to 3500 lbs.

Re: Car Quality Is Slipping

#85

Post by datavirtue »

trebor wrote: post #40

I think that the base claim that "Car quality is slipping" is generally true. But I think that this is a trend that began a decade ago. Comparing the track records of the vehicles I've owned: 2002 Corolla (used) - rock solid reliability, only cosmetic issues with vinyl and a need for break pads. 2013 Elantra (brand new) - reliable, except for an electrical issue caused by an off-brand Rocket Fish (Best Buy in-house b…

I have a 2017 Civic. Will never consider Honda again (had a 2001 Oddesy). Has a recall, yet to be done due to the inconvenience, that causes the car to jerk around in the lane on the hiway. Wife is constantly bringing up some "weird noise" or it's "acting weird."

In general, it is just a crappy, uncomfortable car with far too many complex systems onboard. I should have learned my lesson with the van. Really expensive, totally meh build quality, horrid suspension, and garbage sound system. Disgrace for a company with the repute of Honda.

Re: Car Quality Is Slipping

#86

Post by davewashere »

ramesh31 wrote: post #18
abfan1127 wrote: post #7

Initial quality always seemed like a silly measure to me. I'm more interested in total cost of ownership through 150k-200k miles. Own a GM for 90 days vs own a GM for 15 years and you'll have vastly different results, IMO.

Reality is that no one owns a car for 200k miles anymore. There are of course outliers, but the vast majority of people are either buying/leasing/trading every 3-4 years, or are at the opposite end of the spectrum buying whatever cheap rust heap they can keep running.

I would be shocked if that's true. 30 years ago I remember it being a big deal when the family car reached 100,000 miles. If you kept a car running long enough to get it to 200,000 miles you'd probably get an short article written about it in the local newspaper.

Re: Car Quality Is Slipping

#87

Post by kkfx »

IME the overall quality of pretty anything is falling, not just cars, the race toward cost-cutting have reached the point of no-return in general assembly output quality.

New stuff, not EV in particular, have bigger problems in mean just because they are sold as production ready while are just beta quality prototypes.

For cars, not EVs in particular, the issue is in target mismatch: cars now are pushed to be services, rolling infotainment stuff, while people actually tend to need and desire vehicles so less crappy crapware, less surveillance capitalism stuff, less useless interfaces and more effective tools. As a result the end product is bad. It's the mix of some managers and engineers and customers deeply divergent views.

Re: Car Quality Is Slipping

#88

Post by dispatchapp »

_yb2s wrote: post #83
dispatchapp wrote: post #28

My 2014 WRX has had a myriad of reliability issues. Bone stock, always maintained, and just constantly going into the dealer for issues. Thankfully I have an extended warranty. Issue #1: 19k miles - OEM turbo blows. Subaru FSE determines a bearing seized prematurely. Turbo replaced. Issue #2: 23k miles - Replacement turbo starts making more sounds mimicking the same noises the OEM turbo made before it blew. Subaru re…

Your WRX makes 265hp from a 4 cylinder engine, that's as much power as Porsche was getting out of their 6 cylinder 2.7 engines at the time, in cars that cost far more... The WRX is a really cheap family car with a small 4 cylinder engine tuned to the absolute performance limit with TONS of turbo boost, and the corresponding massive amounts of heat and stress that includes. I would expect it to be incredibly unreliabl…

You bring a very valid point up here! Thanks for putting things into perspective :)

Re: Car Quality Is Slipping

#89

Post by dispatchapp »

dugmartin wrote: post #76
dispatchapp wrote: post #28

My 2014 WRX has had a myriad of reliability issues. Bone stock, always maintained, and just constantly going into the dealer for issues. Thankfully I have an extended warranty. Issue #1: 19k miles - OEM turbo blows. Subaru FSE determines a bearing seized prematurely. Turbo replaced. Issue #2: 23k miles - Replacement turbo starts making more sounds mimicking the same noises the OEM turbo made before it blew. Subaru re…

> it wasn't the exhaust shields as suspected Ah, the Subaru exhaust rattle. We had it in our Outback and I hear it in every Subaru over a couple of years old here in Western Massachusetts. It is as distinctive as the exhaust note on MGs used to be.

Yep! SoA just informed me my warranty expired in Nov of 2021 and that I need a new synchronizer and shift forks! Woohoo. $4k repair.

Re: Car Quality Is Slipping

#90

Post by guywithahat »

abfan1127 wrote: post #7

Initial quality always seemed like a silly measure to me. I'm more interested in total cost of ownership through 150k-200k miles. Own a GM for 90 days vs own a GM for 15 years and you'll have vastly different results, IMO.

It is silly, however by the time the car has 150-200k miles it's so old we have a new version and it's not an indicator of the current car quality.
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