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The Water Wars Come to the Suburbs

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Re: The Water Wars Come to the Suburbs

#81

Post by bradfa »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #76
bradfa wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the whole concept of having HOAs in many neighborhoods is a very regional thing. I live in upstate NY and pretty much every single-family homes neighborhood around me does not have an HOA. The only neighborhoods which have HOAs are those with large numbers of multi-family homes, like townhomes. In some ways it's nice to not have an HOA, no one bugs me if my lawn is looking sad. But in other ways it would be n…

That is probably because upstate NY does not have new housing developments. All housing developments built from scratch since the 2000s that I have seen have HOAs. Many from 1980s and 1990s. Once the HOA is in place by the original developer, it is rare to get the votes needed to remove the HOA.

My neighborhood was built starting around 2005-2006. Then during 2008-ish building paused for a bit, then resumed around 2012, then paused again around 2014, then resumed around 2018. It's now complete. There's lots of new single-family home neighborhoods being built in my town, afaict none of them have HOAs.

Re: The Water Wars Come to the Suburbs

#82

Post by Scoundreller »

coryrc wrote: post #60
dktoao wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are going to need to provide a source for your claim that cooling is less efficient than heating. AFAIK from my days as a mechanical engineer, heating from an electric source is ~95% efficient and cooling is ~30% efficient...

Heat pumps have COP of 2-4, so in either heating or cooling mode, they generate more heating/cooling than electricity used. But the reason cooling is cheaper is the temperature differential. AZ might get to, say, 110°F peak (and far cooler at night), for a temp delta of 35°F while the Midwest will stay below 20°F for months, and even colder at night, for a temp differential no better than 50°F during the day and 60°F…

And heat pump efficiency takes a dump when it has to go through defrost cycles in heating mode at near/below freezing temps.

In cooling mode they provide a source of fresh-distilled water! It always bothered me when air conditioners just dump that water down the sanitary drain instead of pumping it in a garden or misting it on the outside coils.

Re: The Water Wars Come to the Suburbs

#84

Post by woodruffw »

nostromo wrote: post #80
woodruffw wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What natural wildlife is someone on the 10th floor of a century-old apartment building displacing? Last time I checked, Vegas also gets the majority of its water from the Colorado River, including via Lake Mead. No amount of smart water usage is going to change the macro climate patterns here.

The majority of Seattle's land use is single family houses, not unlike cities in the Southwest. Besides, apartment buildings exist in desert cities too. The question wasn't about density, it was about building in deserts or not. Building in deserts is better for the environment.

Sure, but it's all about proportions, both for existing and new residential construction.

I would be very surprised if Arizona either has or is building high-density apartment housing at the rate that Seattle or any other dense coastal state is. There's simply less incentive to.

Re: The Water Wars Come to the Suburbs

#85

Post by lotsofpulp »

bradfa wrote: post #81
lotsofpulp wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is probably because upstate NY does not have new housing developments. All housing developments built from scratch since the 2000s that I have seen have HOAs. Many from 1980s and 1990s. Once the HOA is in place by the original developer, it is rare to get the votes needed to remove the HOA.

My neighborhood was built starting around 2005-2006. Then during 2008-ish building paused for a bit, then resumed around 2012, then paused again around 2014, then resumed around 2018. It's now complete. There's lots of new single-family home neighborhoods being built in my town, afaict none of them have HOAs.

Where is this? I am familiar with developments in CA/WA/OR/TX/TN/FL.

All the FL/TX ones even come with gates.

Re: The Water Wars Come to the Suburbs

#86

Post by lbrito »

joshuaheard wrote: post #14

On a planet that is 2/3 water, I think we can find a solution. Desalination comes to mind. We built an interstate highway system. We can build an interstate water distribution system for desalinated Pacific Ocean water.

>We can build an interstate water distribution system

Canals are a well-known technology. Humanity has several thousand years of experience with them.

Desalination is the real problem.

Re: The Water Wars Come to the Suburbs

#87

Post by D13Fd »

Scoundreller wrote: post #77
D13Fd wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what the other poster meant is that “cooling in a warm client is less energy intensive than heating in a cool climate” which is generally true. This is partially because the temperature deltas are smaller. If you are aiming for 70 inside and you have 95 outside, you are fighting a 25-degree delta. But if you want 70 inside and have 25 outside, that’s a 45-degree delta the system has to overcome.

Delta is one thing, but you're also fighting solar gain when trying to cool. Sure you can mitigate, but when heating, the sun is working in your favour. Winds are another variable.

That’s true, although solar heating in warm climates can be mitigated in some ways (roof color, attic structure/ventilation) and solar heating in cold climates is tough with a layer of snow on the roof. Bottom line is that there are many variables but a big delta tends to be energy intensive to overcome.

Re: The Water Wars Come to the Suburbs

#88

Post by s1artibartfast »

dktoao wrote: post #53
legitster wrote: post #44

I'll be a resident contrarian and argue that building more houses in the SW is a good thing. - The desert is probably the best place to build sprawling metropolises with the lowest ecological impact (overall) - Cooling is more energy efficient than heating. - Houses in places like AZ are implicitly less wasteful (no lawns, better insulated, etc). - People like it But the question is how to get water to these places?…

You are going to need to provide a source for your claim that cooling is less efficient than heating. AFAIK from my days as a mechanical engineer, heating from an electric source is ~95% efficient and cooling is ~30% efficient...

Swamp coolers can be several hundred percent efficient.

Re: The Water Wars Come to the Suburbs

#89

Post by tristor »

Finnucane wrote: post #61
phpisthebest wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Cooling is more energy efficient than heating. How is that? First thing ofcourse is everything we do as human, including our body is generating heat, for my cooling my home is FAR FAR FAR more expensive (thus i would assume more energy intensive) than heating my home. >>Houses in places like AZ are implicitly less wasteful (no lawns, better insulated, etc). This is largely government zoning or HOA's here, people o…

> but my local government prevents that They mandate you have a grass lawn?

Yes, unfortunately, this is very common. I'm in South Texas (for a few more weeks before I move) and my municipal ordinance requires homes to have a grass lawn and for it to be maintained. No HOA here (main reason I bought this house). I pay a lawn service company monthly to manage it for me, because it's a huge pain otherwise due to the climate.

Re: The Water Wars Come to the Suburbs

#90

Post by lotsofpulp »

bombcar wrote: post #46
knappe wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too want to find this article (I'm certain it was linked from HN). It isn't a strong towns article, but it had some great diagrams showing how the city centers are the only economically viable places for utilities because of density. The suburbs were just not cost effective and thus were going to go bankrupt because of the lack of efficiency. I've tried to find this article in the past and it has been long enough t…

I have strong suspicions that the data doesn't hold up if examined closely, because "suburbs" are just low density towns, and small towns continue to exist nearly everywhere. Sure maintenance comes around, but it always seems to work out, somehow.

There are lots of small towns across the US where it has not worked out.

I spent a couple years in Macomb, IL when I was a kid. Take a look at that place on Street View.

Overall population growth is mostly what has allowed for things to “work out” previously, but as the rate of growth slows down or even goes negative for the first time in recent history, the necessary conditions may not hold anymore for things to “work out”.

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