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“But The Client Wants IE 6 Support”

smashingmagazine.com

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Re: “But The Client Wants IE 6 Support”

#101

Post by jiggy2011 »

mendable wrote: post #4

This article is great, but it works on the premise that IE6 support is a purely rational discussion by two knowledgeable parties before a contract is signed. -- In reality, you may develop a website, then the client is visiting their uncle bob one weekend who has an old computer with IE6 lying around, client + uncle bob open up the website to have a look, and it is "broken". Client then sends you a hate mail about br…

Yes , this is a strange phenomenon. People are often more interested in what works on their computers or those of friends,family than they are than looking at it in terms of supporting % of potential customers.

You can bet your ass that if your client suddenly decided to start using lynx exclusively for his browsing that he would suddenly become very stressed that his flash intro doesn't work :)

Reminds me of doing tech support for a web hosting company a few years ago.

Customer: "Our Website is down!" Me: "Ok let me check.... Seems like it is up too me.." Customer: "No it's definately down!"

It then transpires that their internet connection is not working at all and that they already knew this to be the case.

They were still concerned about how embarassing for them it was that their website was down because they had just handed out new business cards with the new URL on them.

And people think that us techies are the borderline autistic ones..

Re: “But The Client Wants IE 6 Support”

#102

Post by davekinkead »

lwat wrote: post #100
idiopathic wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me tell you about the UK National Health Service. 1 million employees, they are literally saving people's lives every day, and all they are allowed to use is IE6. What your statement shows is not a understanding of how to solve the problem for such a client, but a rather a complete lack of understanding. Check the audience metrics, check the real problem being solved, and leave the grandstanding aside. And for th…

I'm so glad I've never had a client like that here in Australia. Everyone seems to be OK with the idea of running multiple browsers. We do have clients that use IE6 but we've always managed to convince them to install Chrome or Firefox on their desktops so they can use our software. Some users end up using multiple browsers but that's ok. I guess we're fortunate in the sense that our software is important enough and…

Except certain Australian Federal departments with 70,000+ staff who are stuck on IE6 because their IT boffins only want to use 'secure' web browsers and IT policy doesn't give them any choice in the tools they use.

Re: “But The Client Wants IE 6 Support”

#103

Post by toumhi »

thibaut_barrere wrote: post #27
toumhi wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my logs (for a file sharing solution for businesses in France) show 5.5% for IE6. Maybe because there are more early adopters at the moment? I for sure hope I won't need to spend hundreds of hours supporting IE6...

hi Tommy! My guess is that most "IE6 only" corporations would not allow using a file-sharing site anyway :) I still maintain one site which is around 70% IE6 (internal stuff in insurance). But one day it will change all at once, for political reasons :) I'm not sure you will see more than what you currently see on the long run...

oh hi Thibaut :-) good point, I'm not targeting big corporations anyways. I guess the problem could be that even 5% could be a problem, as people sharing files would complain their 5% customers cannot see the files... well, we'll see, no complaints so far ;-)

Re: “But The Client Wants IE 6 Support”

#104

Post by lwat »

davekinkead wrote: post #102
lwat wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm so glad I've never had a client like that here in Australia. Everyone seems to be OK with the idea of running multiple browsers. We do have clients that use IE6 but we've always managed to convince them to install Chrome or Firefox on their desktops so they can use our software. Some users end up using multiple browsers but that's ok. I guess we're fortunate in the sense that our software is important enough and…

Except certain Australian Federal departments with 70,000+ staff who are stuck on IE6 because their IT boffins only want to use 'secure' web browsers and IT policy doesn't give them any choice in the tools they use.

No see my point is that there is ALWAYS someone above the 'IT boffins' that can force changes in policy like that. You don't fight with the 'IT boffins', you go right to the top. If the CIO or CEO or board of directors decide to use your software, they'll change whatever internal policies they need to make it happen.

Re: “But The Client Wants IE 6 Support”

#105

Post by idiopathic »

lwat wrote: post #100
idiopathic wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me tell you about the UK National Health Service. 1 million employees, they are literally saving people's lives every day, and all they are allowed to use is IE6. What your statement shows is not a understanding of how to solve the problem for such a client, but a rather a complete lack of understanding. Check the audience metrics, check the real problem being solved, and leave the grandstanding aside. And for th…

I'm so glad I've never had a client like that here in Australia. Everyone seems to be OK with the idea of running multiple browsers. We do have clients that use IE6 but we've always managed to convince them to install Chrome or Firefox on their desktops so they can use our software. Some users end up using multiple browsers but that's ok. I guess we're fortunate in the sense that our software is important enough and…

Some historical background, which includes plenty of personal bias:

Governments, for all their posturing, love dealing with oligopolies, or even better, monopolies. They feel safer in making purchases from them. So around 2002, the UK government decided IT was so important, it was going to be done centrally for the whole NHS. They gave the job to Richard Granger, who then proceeded to divide England into five regions, each of which would have one vendor responsible for all software in the NHS for that region.

As part of that deal, they licensed MS Windows and Office. At that point, it became more expensive to use open source software than Microsoft's software. Then they standardised on IE6, and many vendors began using ActiveX.

When I ask departments to upgrade, they say they are going to do so, but first they need every single vendor to have signed off that their software works in the new browser. This will take a really long time.

Some will install a new browser for us, but this will actually result in a worse outcome for the clinicians because they have to use IE6 for most of their existing browsing, and then the other browser for us. They do not understand the point or the difference, and new browsers mean a different user interface, and they want to get on with treating patients rather than choosing between browsers.

The epilogue is that the UK government's national program wasted 12 billion pounds (about 20 billion US, ie the same amount the US government is also identically wasting to subsidise electronic health record purchases). And Richard Granger left the UK in disgrace.

He is now a consultant in... Australia :)

Re: “But The Client Wants IE 6 Support”

#106

Post by 5hoom »

flomo wrote: post #69
mendable wrote: post #4

This article is great, but it works on the premise that IE6 support is a purely rational discussion by two knowledgeable parties before a contract is signed. -- In reality, you may develop a website, then the client is visiting their uncle bob one weekend who has an old computer with IE6 lying around, client + uncle bob open up the website to have a look, and it is "broken". Client then sends you a hate mail about br…

Except it usually isn't "uncle bob", it's their biggest customer who still uses IE6, they're losing business, emergency, etc.

If "IE6 Lameness" was indeed discussed prior to starting work, well that's just bad planning on the clients part. You just want to be sure IE6 support wasn't implied in the contract...

Re: “But The Client Wants IE 6 Support”

#107

Post by politician »

idiopathic wrote: post #105
lwat wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm so glad I've never had a client like that here in Australia. Everyone seems to be OK with the idea of running multiple browsers. We do have clients that use IE6 but we've always managed to convince them to install Chrome or Firefox on their desktops so they can use our software. Some users end up using multiple browsers but that's ok. I guess we're fortunate in the sense that our software is important enough and…

Some historical background, which includes plenty of personal bias: Governments, for all their posturing, love dealing with oligopolies, or even better, monopolies. They feel safer in making purchases from them. So around 2002, the UK government decided IT was so important, it was going to be done centrally for the whole NHS. They gave the job to Richard Granger, who then proceeded to divide England into five regions…

Hah, after that I expected that he'd be working for Microsoft directly. The way you tell it, he sounds like their best sales guy.

Re: “But The Client Wants IE 6 Support”

#108

Post by DrStalker »

TamDenholm wrote: post #6

I'm a web developer, whenever a client asks me about IE6 support, i enthusiastically tell them i'll happily support it. I then show them usage statistics for IE6 and tell them IE6 support costs a flat fee of £10,000 and let them think about it. No client has ever taken very long to decide its not worth it and none have ever taken me up on it, although i'm sure 1 or 2 have asked a different developer to make them an I…

We take a slightly different approach: we offer pricing for both full IE6 support (completely matching the mockup and functionality of other browsers) and doing enough work to make sure IE6 can be used although the styling will not be perfect.

Like Tam's approach the key is to give the client options so they can make the call based on their budget and business needs.

Re: “But The Client Wants IE 6 Support”

#109

Post by politician »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #83
jodrellblank wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"OP" roughly meaning: "walk up the comment tree, including comments and authors, all the way to the article and whoever submitted it, stop at the one I'm talking about, which should be pretty clear from the context of what I'm saying".

At least in theory, "OP" means "original poster", making it unambiguous. Though sometimes people mean the root of a comment thread, rather than the article.

Not to navigate off-topic, but merely as an aside, perhaps we can solicit the W3C to weigh in with guidance for .

Re: “But The Client Wants IE 6 Support”

#110

Post by nitrogen »

idiopathic wrote: post #105
lwat wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm so glad I've never had a client like that here in Australia. Everyone seems to be OK with the idea of running multiple browsers. We do have clients that use IE6 but we've always managed to convince them to install Chrome or Firefox on their desktops so they can use our software. Some users end up using multiple browsers but that's ok. I guess we're fortunate in the sense that our software is important enough and…

Some historical background, which includes plenty of personal bias: Governments, for all their posturing, love dealing with oligopolies, or even better, monopolies. They feel safer in making purchases from them. So around 2002, the UK government decided IT was so important, it was going to be done centrally for the whole NHS. They gave the job to Richard Granger, who then proceeded to divide England into five regions…

Would they be willing to use Chrome Frame? It seems like the ideal way to target IE6-only customers without "installing" another browser. That way they can use one browser for all their intranet apps.
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