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FedEx to close data centers, retire mainframes

datacenterdynamics.com

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Re: FedEx to close data centers, retire mainframes

#151

Post by B1FF_PSUVM »

goindeep wrote: post #65
cs702 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without a doubt, a future generation of executives will revisit and reverse the decision to rent all information infrastructure, but that will likely be many, many years down the road. In the meantime, the current generation of executives who made this decision will look very smart for saving the company lots of money for a good number of years. And they stand to benefit personally from it. They're doing the rational…

I used to work with a very smart man that I'm sure was some kind of secret genius. He's was that sort of tech gofer. Hardware, software, didn't matter, if there was a problem he'd solve it. Sort of guy you'd see carrying a thick ass SQL book around because he 'needed to learn it' to solve just one little problem. He built whole entire solutions for the company I worked at in his spare time that the company once tried…

> "Change gives the illusion of progress".

That itself is based on the belief that (historical) progress is an improvement.

Mostly true over the last few centuries - aspirin is nice - except for those occasions where it was mass murder.

Re: FedEx to close data centers, retire mainframes

#152

Post by lotsofpulp »

whatever1 wrote: post #131
lotsofpulp wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The transfer of various liabilities is omitted from the above tweets, which is clearly worth something to some people.

What liabilities? Cloud operators are breached on a monthly basis and there are no repercussions.

Could be as simple as the decision maker being able to point finger at the vendor. Could be PR related, where media does not report your company’s equipment was compromised. Could be reduced exposure to getting locked out of your own system and having to pay a ransom.

Re: FedEx to close data centers, retire mainframes

#153

Post by Someone1234 »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #136

I've seen two mainframe "replacements" fail to either retire the mainframe, OR produce an alternative system which people like. Has any Fortune 500 company successfully "retired" their mainframe?

I've seen it. It was essentially four steps:

- Build middleware (REST API endpoint) in front of the mainframe that was 1:1 mainframe functions. It initially does nothing except auth and routing.

- Re-write/migrate all other software from using the mainframe directly to using the new middleware.

- Work to further restrict anything directly connecting to the mainframe aside from the middleware, including staff's terminal access by building management solutions (e.g. new UIs, new management middleware).

- Once the mainframe is completely isolated, start building drop-in replacements for business segments and then switch the middleware(s) to point at the new solution from the mainframe. This should be invisible to all external consumers. You can "hot test" it by having the API execute on the mainframe + new solution, and checking for 1:1 responses.

The hardest part about the above isn't the tech, it is the internal norms that you're fighting against (e.g. staff have had terminal access for tens of years, and know the commands to get their work done by memory). So you have to create very compelling alternatives using the new API middleware/web/apps, "export to Microsoft Excel," graphing, mobile support, and similar that a terminal cannot directly offer is clutch here.

Re: FedEx to close data centers, retire mainframes

#154

Post by ryanmercer »

I left FedEx (Trade Networks) after 15 and a half years earlier this year. The entirety of that 15 1/2 years was spent using IBM AS/400 terminal to interact with various systems and was also used to submit paperwork to Customs and any other applicable government agencies to clear international freight.

It... was an experience.

I imagine that is going to take quite a bit of work to migrate over to someone else's servers, as I doubt they're going to be like "sure, we can accommodate your decade and a half old, mission-critical, systems"

Re: FedEx to close data centers, retire mainframes

#155

Post by prometheus76 »

oblio wrote: post #77
goindeep wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work with a very smart man that I'm sure was some kind of secret genius. He's was that sort of tech gofer. Hardware, software, didn't matter, if there was a problem he'd solve it. Sort of guy you'd see carrying a thick ass SQL book around because he 'needed to learn it' to solve just one little problem. He built whole entire solutions for the company I worked at in his spare time that the company once tried…

Never confuse movement for action :-)

This isn't always easy to determine, especially if you are part of the movement. Often, we move by dead reckoning and only after some amount of time can we determine if what we did was "movement" or "progress".

Re: FedEx to close data centers, retire mainframes

#156

Post by bluGill »

masswerk wrote: post #94
cs702 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, I don't think the decision is that shortsighted in this case. It could work out pretty well for a decade or longer. IMHO FedEx is likely to have a good run before the costs and risks of this decision start outweighing its benefits.

However, when the situation starts to become unbearable, how long will it take to rebuild the infrastructure and source talent? Another decade? Adding the startup costs for any possible rebuild, you're apt for a substantial net loss. So you're probably going to shy away from such a reintegration, while losses accumulate further, until this becomes unsustainable, putting the entire corporation at risk. (The wise thing…

Will it? If they do this right it won't. There is a large cost running a data center. So long as long as there is competition they are better off with experts doing computers while they focus on logistics which is what they do well.

Of course they should make some effort to ensure there is competition. That means they are careful to ensure more than one provider exists even if it means taking a slightly higher priced option. Also contracts end early if the company is bought out. (that is if AWS, buys google cloud - see above about ensuring there are competitors in the market)

Re: FedEx to close data centers, retire mainframes

#157

Post by jes »

cs702 wrote: post #36
kragen wrote: post #19

Ultimately companies that abdicate their informatics operations like this will give their profits to their data-center operators, who will be empowered to charge them whatever price they want. Because what's their BATNA? Migrating from Azure to AWS when Microsoft doesn't want to let them? Renting your information infrastructure is a great way to reduce startup costs, but down the road, that information infrastructure…

Without a doubt, a future generation of executives will revisit and reverse the decision to rent all information infrastructure, but that will likely be many, many years down the road. In the meantime, the current generation of executives who made this decision will look very smart for saving the company lots of money for a good number of years. And they stand to benefit personally from it. They're doing the rational…

You are right about this.

One of the visible signs of an unrecognized (and therefore, unresolved) dilemma is oscillation between two poles.

I got this from the late Eli Goldratt and the problem-solving tools he created. One of those tools is the "Evaporating Cloud," which is a way to visualize a dilemma of some kind.

I'd suggest that there is an unresolved dilemma here: Should we rent or own data centers?

Over a period of years or decades, you can watch these things flip-flop between two extremes.

It's interesting to me that this dilemma is kind of like a specialization (in OO terminology) of a more generic dilemma, which might be something like: "In general, do we want to own or rent the things we need to run our business?"

If your turn your head a bit, close your eyes a bit and squint, you can see how a dilemma like this can apply to things like "What should be our policy regarding employees vs. contractors? Should we try to hire and retain over a long period of time, or should we rent the people we need to get the job done and release them as soon as we are done with them?"

The overall point is that whenever you see flip-flopping between two poles, think "Unrecognized dilemma."

Sorry if this is vague.

Re: FedEx to close data centers, retire mainframes

#159

Post by masswerk »

beckingz wrote: post #148
masswerk wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, when the situation starts to become unbearable, how long will it take to rebuild the infrastructure and source talent? Another decade? Adding the startup costs for any possible rebuild, you're apt for a substantial net loss. So you're probably going to shy away from such a reintegration, while losses accumulate further, until this becomes unsustainable, putting the entire corporation at risk. (The wise thing…

$400m saved today in exchange for $500m 10 years from now sounds like a good deal financially! Sometimes tech debt can be used instead of financial debt!

Mind that if you'd ever wanted to integrate again, this means buying land, planning infrastructure, building it, planning, obtaining and setting up hardware and software, hiring, training, defining and testing procedures, etc, as you're starting from zero again – and all this while the costs, which forced you to consider this move, are piling up. Odds are, you'll never do this and cloud providers will know this. The comparative costs are now not those of running your own infrastructure, but those of setting it up (again).

Re: FedEx to close data centers, retire mainframes

#160

Post by Spooky23 »

kragen wrote: post #19

Ultimately companies that abdicate their informatics operations like this will give their profits to their data-center operators, who will be empowered to charge them whatever price they want. Because what's their BATNA? Migrating from Azure to AWS when Microsoft doesn't want to let them? Renting your information infrastructure is a great way to reduce startup costs, but down the road, that information infrastructure…

Most public companies already outsource their executive management to Wall St analysts.

I think the reality in this case is that the cloud providers are little different than the incumbent (ie IBM or some other dead platform). Mainframe is a sole source solution, and IBM is always trying to extract their own pound of flesh as they manage that business down to zero.

At scale, you’re better off managing a handful of suppliers (probably Microsoft, Oracle, Azure, IBM) than dealing with one, and figuring out how to sustain the business as the workforce literally dies off. Nobody with half a brain is getting mainframe skills.

I’m not a fan of FedEx, but they seem to be a company well aware of its limitations and able to take action to correct. For example, they went to “outsourcing” the last mile delivery to independent contractors first when they figured out (almost too late) that e-commerce needed ground shipping. They sort of did Uber, except they didn’t have the ability to just break the law.

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