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How to fuck up an airport

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Re: How to fuck up an airport

#301

Post by Aeolun »

rootusrootus wrote: post #199
Aeolun wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was so surprised going through security in Schiphol Airport recently. I swear there were 3000 people in line, but they have like 30 security checkpoints, and everyone goes in the same line (maybe one per terminal?), so we were through in 15 minutes. It was amazing. I also never realized how much I appreciate everything in that airport being connected by corridors until I had to navigate CDG and it’s stupid trains a…

My brother just went through Schiphol two weeks ago. Scheduled his connecting flight with a five hour layover just to be sure. Took him 5 hours and 20 minutes to make it through security.

Yeah, I understand that we got there at the exact right time. Arrived in the middle of Dutch holidays, left right after.

To be fair, those ridiculous delays had little to do with the layout of the airport, and everything with how it’s managed.

Re: How to fuck up an airport

#302

Post by jhugo »

rglullis wrote: post #282
jhugo wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's no train, though, the turboprop plane is going to be better for the environment than all those people driving.

And an intercity bus will beat them both, while also avoiding the issues of getting in and out of the airport and into the city center.

Mmm, maybe. Average occupancy of buses is usually only around 40%, which probably pushes them above the per-passenger emissions of a modern aircraft, and being typically diesels, they have other emissions than CO2 to worry about.

On a personal note, I also hate bus travel with a passion — it's mind-numbingly slow, you have limited ability to move around, it's sometimes too cramped to work, when toilets are available they're tiny and awful, etc. I love train travel and will use trains whenever available, sometimes even for multi-day journeys, but I will take significant detours or even rearrange travel plans to avoid a bus.

Re: How to fuck up an airport

#303

Post by dzhiurgis »

chrisseaton wrote: post #294
dzhiurgis wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but you can load up on booze, perfume, chocolate, iPads, noise cancelling headphones and tons of other stuff.

Who's got the luggage space to buy these big items at the airport? They're not even cheaper than normal shops - more expensive than Amazon. What's the point?

Those are all impulse buys. Where I am tech is normally cheaper than retail. If you are so disciplined you won't be buying these things at all.

Re: How to fuck up an airport

#304

Post by rglullis »

jhugo wrote: post #302
rglullis wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And an intercity bus will beat them both, while also avoiding the issues of getting in and out of the airport and into the city center.

Mmm, maybe. Average occupancy of buses is usually only around 40%, which probably pushes them above the per-passenger emissions of a modern aircraft, and being typically diesels, they have other emissions than CO2 to worry about. On a personal note, I also hate bus travel with a passion — it's mind-numbingly slow, you have limited ability to move around, it's sometimes too cramped to work, when toilets are available…

I agree that buses are cramped and that trains are way more comfortable, but I think we can also agree that whatever space you don't have in a bus, it will be even worse on a plane...

Also, let's not forget that the experience of traveling by bus got worse mostly because of the popularization of low-cost short-haul flights, and that has killed the market for "premium" bus traveling. If short-haul flights were out of the picture, I wouldn't be surprised if someone started offering bus travel with larger seats (in 2-1 configuration) and even more sleeper buses for night travels [0]

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRTzEJ8znL0

Re: How to fuck up an airport

#305

Post by jhugo »

rglullis wrote: post #304
jhugo wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mmm, maybe. Average occupancy of buses is usually only around 40%, which probably pushes them above the per-passenger emissions of a modern aircraft, and being typically diesels, they have other emissions than CO2 to worry about. On a personal note, I also hate bus travel with a passion — it's mind-numbingly slow, you have limited ability to move around, it's sometimes too cramped to work, when toilets are available…

I agree that buses are cramped and that trains are way more comfortable, but I think we can also agree that whatever space you don't have in a bus, it will be even worse on a plane... Also, let's not forget that the experience of traveling by bus got worse mostly because of the popularization of low-cost short-haul flights, and that has killed the market for "premium" bus traveling. If short-haul flights were out of…

> I agree that buses are cramped and that trains are way more comfortable, but I think we can also agree that whatever space you don't have in a bus, it will be even worse on a plane...

Depends which class you travel, and with which airline. Even in economy, the "legacy" European carriers are generally more comfortable than a bus. The ability to pay more to make the travel bearable is an advantage of air travel.

> Also, let's not forget that the experience of traveling by bus got worse mostly because of the popularization of low-cost short-haul flights, and that has killed the market for "premium" bus traveling. If short-haul flights were out of the picture, I wouldn't be surprised if someone started offering bus travel with larger seats (in 2-1 configuration) and even more sleeper buses for night travels.

You're right that air travel has made premium buses moot, but I think that's a good thing. Spending 12+ hours on a bus is not an improvement over a 2 hour flight, even if you have a bed on the bus. You can spend the night in your own bed and then get to the destination at the same time, having slept better and with less risk of accidental injury. The emissions gap between the two modes is narrowing rapidly, too.

Re: How to fuck up an airport

#306

Post by timje1 »

bobbylarrybobby wrote: post #297
chrisseaton wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's got the luggage space to buy these big items at the airport? They're not even cheaper than normal shops - more expensive than Amazon. What's the point?

I agree with you — I've never bought anything other than food at an airport — but the shops wouldn't be there if they didn't make money.

I remember reading a book a while back that mentioned that the luxury shops in airports don't make any money and don't expect to make sales. They're there to make you see Armani handbags for $2500 and think 'Wow, Armani must be a really luxury brand to have $2500 handbags on sale!'.

This then makes you more likely to later buy an Armani t-shirt for $80.

The store in the airport is there to make you think the brand is glamorous, to convince you of its mystique, not to sell things.

Re: How to fuck up an airport

#307

Post by rglullis »

jhugo wrote: post #305
rglullis wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that buses are cramped and that trains are way more comfortable, but I think we can also agree that whatever space you don't have in a bus, it will be even worse on a plane... Also, let's not forget that the experience of traveling by bus got worse mostly because of the popularization of low-cost short-haul flights, and that has killed the market for "premium" bus traveling. If short-haul flights were out of…

> I agree that buses are cramped and that trains are way more comfortable, but I think we can also agree that whatever space you don't have in a bus, it will be even worse on a plane... Depends which class you travel, and with which airline. Even in economy, the "legacy" European carriers are generally more comfortable than a bus. The ability to pay more to make the travel bearable is an advantage of air travel. > Al…

> Spending 12+ hours on a bus is not an improvement over a 2 hour flight

My argument is that there is no such thing as a 2-hour flight. We still need to factor the time to get to the airport, check-in/boarding, getting off the plane, waiting for luggage, and then getting from the airport to your actual destination. That easily transforms any trip into a 5- or 6-hour event.

Factor in that if you are flying to a place where you need a hotel to "sleep on your own bed", suddenly even a very luxurious night bus might come out ahead in price and practicality.

Granted, for an European context it makes a lot less sense to talk about intercity bus because we have a reasonably extensive rail network. But put your hate of buses aside for a moment and consider that buses can be better, so from a North American perspective it can make sense to consider it.

Re: How to fuck up an airport

#308

Post by chrisseaton »

oneoff786 wrote: post #298
chrisseaton wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's got the luggage space to buy these big items at the airport? They're not even cheaper than normal shops - more expensive than Amazon. What's the point?

Last minute souvenirs

Souvenir iPad?

Re: How to fuck up an airport

#309

Post by llampx »

okr wrote: post #38
sschueller wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiss airlines have the same issue. Pay is absolute garbage and some that have been there for 20 years are actually making less than they did back then. Many left and switched cariers during covid. It's an absolute shit show and if it keep going like this they will go bankrupt again. This time I hope we finally learn and have the government juat take it over or let it die off.

Or just double the prizes and raise the wages.

They would rather get a government bailout and then pay their execs bonuses and keep paying the little people peanuts.

Re: How to fuck up an airport

#310

Post by llampx »

da39a3ee wrote: post #139

Germany doesn't traditionally have a reputation for incompetence. It sounds like this podcast gives many proximate reasons for this project's failure. What are the ultimate reasons?

Reputations take a long time to change. Meanwhile the product can become worse and worse while public opinion takes a while to change.
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