Ubuntu Unity desktop back from the dead after several years' hiatus • Hacker News Board

Re: Ubuntu Unity desktop back from the dead after several years' hiatus

#171

Post by noisem4ker » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 8:14 PM UTC

Mikeb85 wrote: post #148

BirAdam wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I felt much the same way. The global menu also fixed the issue of people shoving menus into hamburgers that I hate. Unity additionally had their search feature that doubled as a run box which was awesome. Tap meta and type the application name and hit enter. Unity really maximalized productivity in my opinion. It’s a shame that Canoncial abandoned it, but being open source the community seems to have quietly continue…

> Unity additionally had their search feature that doubled as a run box which was awesome. Tap meta and type the application name and hit enter. Gnome Shell does the same thing...

...as does KDE Plasma with Krunner: https://userbase.kde.org/Plasma/Krunner

Re: Ubuntu Unity desktop back from the dead after several years' hiatus

#172

Post by mikewhy » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 8:42 PM UTC

longstation wrote: post #91

nothatscool wrote: post #80

Unity’s global menu system was wonderful and once getting used to how well it used vertical space switching to gnome was like going back 10 years. Seeing multiple empty bars across the screen makes it completely unusable to me not to mention their need to replace simple menus with seemingly random icons scattered everywhere. I’m using kde plasma now with a global menu set up. It’s good but isn’t as hassle free as Uni…

I am same there (using KDE Plasma with global menu). Recently, with VSCode's menu on title bar, it seems to have started a trend doing so. For example, JetBrain's IDEs are also designed that way. I found the term for that, it's called LIM (locally integrated menu). Now, Unity has done that many years ago. If I remember correctly, the behavior was: when maximized, it behaves like a global menu; when not, it's a LIM. F…

This seems like a weird half-step between "headerbars" / client side decorations / hamburger menus. KDE Maui is going that direction: https://mauikit.org/apps/

Sadly it just seems to be more like a custom window decoration that only does shadows (no actual title bar) and regular KDE headers, no actual window controls / CSD.

Re: Ubuntu Unity desktop back from the dead after several years' hiatus

#173

Post by hvis » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 8:42 PM UTC

nothatscool wrote: post #80

Unity’s global menu system was wonderful and once getting used to how well it used vertical space switching to gnome was like going back 10 years. Seeing multiple empty bars across the screen makes it completely unusable to me not to mention their need to replace simple menus with seemingly random icons scattered everywhere. I’m using kde plasma now with a global menu set up. It’s good but isn’t as hassle free as Uni…

Unity was a great project, but not all is lost.

I've been using this GNOME extension for years, and it's been very solid: https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/1287/unite/

It emulates Unity quite well (removing the titlebars on maximized windows, among other things).

Re: Ubuntu Unity desktop back from the dead after several years' hiatus

#174

Post by asoneth » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 8:57 PM UTC

bregma wrote: post #134

brnt wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The make or break moment for Unity was Canonicals failed crowd-source campaign for their phone. Work on Unity 8 was underway and would have succeeded Unity 7, and would have been the DE for both their phone and desktop. With the end of the campaign, it seems like all their desktop efforts ended too, and they shifted focus to servers, snap, snap-stores.

This is nowhere near the historical truth. The Ubuntu Edge (2013) had no effect on the Unity project or on the OS convergence project. Those were cancelled several years (2017) after the Ubuntu Edge as a result of a business decision to make the company more profitable for investors. There is zero money in desktop, and Canonical continues supporting Ubuntu only as enabling technology for their server and IoT product…

> The Ubuntu Edge (2013) had no effect on the Unity project or on the OS convergence project.

The failure of Ubuntu Edge to meet its lofty ($32M) crowdfunding target did not immediately result in Canonical abandoning their convergence aspirations. But it was part of a broader trend of failed attempts to monetize mobile and desktop users. Had more those attempts been sufficiently successful I doubt they would have abandoned OS convergence.

Re: Ubuntu Unity desktop back from the dead after several years' hiatus

#175

Post by brnt » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 9:02 PM UTC

bregma wrote: post #134

brnt wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The make or break moment for Unity was Canonicals failed crowd-source campaign for their phone. Work on Unity 8 was underway and would have succeeded Unity 7, and would have been the DE for both their phone and desktop. With the end of the campaign, it seems like all their desktop efforts ended too, and they shifted focus to servers, snap, snap-stores.

This is nowhere near the historical truth. The Ubuntu Edge (2013) had no effect on the Unity project or on the OS convergence project. Those were cancelled several years (2017) after the Ubuntu Edge as a result of a business decision to make the company more profitable for investors. There is zero money in desktop, and Canonical continues supporting Ubuntu only as enabling technology for their server and IoT product…

Nowhere near you say? Mir and Unity 8 dev were put on the back burner not long after the Edge campaign. Remeber that no release with them was ever made. Formally terminating dev work a few years later seems to fit in very well: there suddenly was no need for Mir, and the shift in focus to the server fits well with dropping a custom DE.

Re: Ubuntu Unity desktop back from the dead after several years' hiatus

#176

Post by thecosmicfrog » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 10:04 PM UTC

silisili wrote: post #2

That's exciting. I must be one of the few who actually liked Unity a lot, probably better than Gnome. From what I understand, a lot of the underlayment was 'hacky' and abandoned. While I don't like most NIH that Canonical does(snaps, upstart, mir), I really wish they'd have kept Unity.

Upstart predated systemd. I never understand the negativity that surrounds it.

Re: Ubuntu Unity desktop back from the dead after several years' hiatus

#177

Post by boomboomsubban » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 10:06 PM UTC

noisy_boy wrote: post #131

boomboomsubban wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>my monitors go blank and once the display is back after few seconds, Are you sure you aren't having power issues? I had similar problems I think I fixed with randr, but a UPS for your monitors might be a better choice. Never daily though, more storm based or once every few months.

That is an interesting point - though no other devices are affected so it is unlikely that this is related to power.

I'm only sharing my experience, but the reason I figured out it was a power thing was in the summer my AC would stop for a second too. I never noticed any problems with anything else in the winter.

Re: Ubuntu Unity desktop back from the dead after several years' hiatus

#178

Post by pxc » Tue, Jul 05, 2022, 1:06 AM UTC

nothatscool wrote: post #80

Unity’s global menu system was wonderful and once getting used to how well it used vertical space switching to gnome was like going back 10 years. Seeing multiple empty bars across the screen makes it completely unusable to me not to mention their need to replace simple menus with seemingly random icons scattered everywhere. I’m using kde plasma now with a global menu set up. It’s good but isn’t as hassle free as Uni…

> I think it was a case of an extremely loud minority who weren’t even using it that contributed to canonical abandoning it.

As I recall it, the initial uproar was over the opt-out phoning home and web searches in the main menu/search integrated with the desktop. (Unity called this menu/search mechanism a 'lens'. Contemporary (10 and 11) windows start menus kinda resemble it, although they are worse when it comes to what people objected to in Unity.) Eventually Canonical relented and promised that the next (never finished?) rewrite of Unity would make those features opt-in.

Then there were conflicts with GNOME, where there were difficulties upstreaming parts of Unity, and GNOME was resistant to changing its direction for the sake of the alternative visions of downstream projects.

Both conflicts were unfortunate, but I don't think any of the big complaints were about the desktop experience itself. I don't remember hearing that Unity's vision for the desktop was a bad one, and as a user who was a very turned off by the whole shopping lens thing, I actually really liked the general lens functionality and desktop workflow, and I loved the global menu search.

I feel like despite the controversies, the potential of the desktop experience was always clear.

I'm sure they had their reasons for dropping it, but I wish Canonical had stuck with Unity, even if it wouldn't necessarily be my choice on all my machines, we still only have the big two when it comes to mature, feature-complete desktop environments on Linux and the free Unices.

Re: Ubuntu Unity desktop back from the dead after several years' hiatus

#179

Post by AtlasBarfed » Tue, Jul 05, 2022, 1:18 AM UTC

rob74 wrote: post #44

threatripper wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I recall correctly, both GNOME and Unity shared rejection from a number of users (I don't know if that was large group or just very noisy) The GNOME redesign. The old 2D GNOME was OK. It was functional, stable and pretty (for someone who thinks that Windows 3.11 style is a good fit for a work environment). Then the old software was abandoned and the update was pushed onto users. KDE also had a transition disaste…

Has there ever been a good time for Linux on the desktop? I'm using Linux (Kubuntu) daily, and it works most of the time, but I still see some issues from time to time (multi-monitor strangeness, windows suddenly appearing without frames because kwin crashed, desktop wallpapers not being shown or being shown incorrectly etc.).

I love linux but the desktops are horrendously balkanized. I support the continued development of Unity in the hopes it destroys others. I mean, it won't.... but at least Linux is trying.

We had a solid 10 years of Apple neglecting OSX and more importantly Microsoft ruining windows with their tiles dual desktop. What did Linux do? pointless rewrites that added nothing to the fundamental usability of the desktops.

The opportunity has passed. We either hope that Satella moves Windows closer to Linux/Unix, or ... desktop linux fades with desktops in general.

Re: Ubuntu Unity desktop back from the dead after several years' hiatus

#180

Post by sontek » Tue, Jul 05, 2022, 2:08 AM UTC

losingom wrote: post #162

BirAdam wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I felt much the same way. The global menu also fixed the issue of people shoving menus into hamburgers that I hate. Unity additionally had their search feature that doubled as a run box which was awesome. Tap meta and type the application name and hit enter. Unity really maximalized productivity in my opinion. It’s a shame that Canoncial abandoned it, but being open source the community seems to have quietly continue…

>Sadly, the one non-standard thing that they continue insisting on is Snap. Snap was and largely is mainly for the server crowd, that they've shoved into the desktop. So in that regard I suppose it's at least consistent for them. That said, snap is still terrible, but Canonical always just does their own thing.

Who in the server crowd is using snaps?