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Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

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Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#291

Post by worldshit »

klez wrote: post #280
worldshit wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> based on open access to your work Can I freely use your toilet then? your electricity? You pay for the plumber, why don't you pay for entertainment? Scientific knowledge must be open, but most copyrighted work is entertainment.

> Can I freely use your toilet then? your electricity? No because once you used them I don't have them anymore. There's a reason IP has different rules than physical property. > You pay for the plumber, why don't you pay for entertainment? Ok, that's a more appropriate analogy, but then again, should my plumber get a recurring fee for the work they already did, when I use the faucet to give drinks to my friends?

> No because once you used them I don't have them anymore.

I mean entering your house, doing my business in your toilet and leave. I won't take your toilet with me, I'll come back when I need it again.

> when I use the faucet to give drinks to my friends?

But your friends all have their own house with their own plumbing they paid him for, so he can continue making a living from his craft. Writing a book takes months or years, not 2 hours like repairing a toilet, so of course the author needs to ask for money from everyone who wants to access it.

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#292

Post by [deleted] »

grumbel wrote: post #275
rightbyte wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It could also result in far more draconian DRM, as that would be the only way left to protect your work. There is no way to protect video, audio or text from being copied. DRM just prevents low effort consumer copying.

There are plenty of ways. Limit playback only to official DRM-locked devices and have those devices film the user. The moment a camera makes it into the picture you block their account for life. That's not even new tech, 3D face detection is standard part of many smartphones and laptops. And companies like Facebook have no problem locking you out forever from their services, for much milder infractions. Or more pract…

[deleted]

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#293

Post by klez »

worldshit wrote: post #291
klez wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can I freely use your toilet then? your electricity? No because once you used them I don't have them anymore. There's a reason IP has different rules than physical property. > You pay for the plumber, why don't you pay for entertainment? Ok, that's a more appropriate analogy, but then again, should my plumber get a recurring fee for the work they already did, when I use the faucet to give drinks to my friends?

> No because once you used them I don't have them anymore. I mean entering your house, doing my business in your toilet and leave. I won't take your toilet with me, I'll come back when I need it again. > when I use the faucet to give drinks to my friends? But your friends all have their own house with their own plumbing they paid him for, so he can continue making a living from his craft. Writing a book takes months…

> I mean entering your house, doing my business in your toilet and leave. I won't take your toilet with me, I'll come back when I need it again

We're moving the goalpost here. And we're still talking about physical property (or possession) vs. intellectual property. I suggest we stop with that line of reasoning/metaphor.

> But your friends all have their own house with their own plumbing they paid him for, so he can continue making a living from his craft.

Again, the metaphor does not hold. Such a situation only means that the plumber is the only plumber in town. If we have multiple plumbers (so we can stick to the metaphor) my plumber can't forbid me to use my plumbing for certain uses (like watering my plants or offering water to my friends for free or for a fee).

> Writing a book takes months or years, not 2 hours like repairing a toilet, so of course the author needs to ask for money from everyone who wants to access it.

So it's just a quantitative difference? I can pay 1 cent per 1000 toilet flushes then. Seems fair.

My point is, I think these kind of metaphors don't work here precisely because intellectual work is its own thing.

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#294

Post by [deleted] »

grumbel wrote: post #275
rightbyte wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It could also result in far more draconian DRM, as that would be the only way left to protect your work. There is no way to protect video, audio or text from being copied. DRM just prevents low effort consumer copying.

There are plenty of ways. Limit playback only to official DRM-locked devices and have those devices film the user. The moment a camera makes it into the picture you block their account for life. That's not even new tech, 3D face detection is standard part of many smartphones and laptops. And companies like Facebook have no problem locking you out forever from their services, for much milder infractions. Or more pract…

[deleted]

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#295

Post by stavros »

npteljes wrote: post #266
stavros wrote: post #120

I see things like this, and I wonder why the following software doesn't exist: I want a piece of software to which I can add a collection of files, say multiple TB. The software will then behave a bit like a BitTorrent tracker, and know which peer has which files. A peer joining this swarm will be able to say "I want to donate X GB of space", and the tracker would tell it "OK, then download and seed these files, whic…

Freenet is built around similar ideas, combined with encryption an anonymization. Which hopefully adds the benefit of you not being legally liable of distributing CSAM. The gist of Freenet is that you can operate a freesite or upload files, and the content is redundantly dispersed in encrypted parts among a number of other Freenet peers. They don't know what they're hosting and neither do you, the client just fills u…

My idea is similar but slightly different. You'd run your client and then choose whose provider's data to seed, eg you'd add the Internet Archive and Libgen to your datasets.

Only those entities would be able to push data to you, nobody else, so if you trust the providers you specified, you should be good.

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#296

Post by rakoo »

zasdffaa wrote: post #262
einpoklum wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should I be disallowed to commercialise it? I believe you are mis-phrasing the question. What you're actually asking is: > Should the state criminalize and punish people who make copies of my work, to facilitate my commercial activity with it? And our answer is "No". You can go ahead and engage in whatever commercial activity you like, based on open access to your work.

That's a constructive answer, so thanks, although I have to ask your view of how BSD was used by apple to build a massive fortune but without paying significantly back to the BSD community. Overheard from an IP lawyer I stood near to once - something about f/oss software being incorporated into commercial products being a big issue (for the free stuff, not the company doing the 'stealing' of it). Your view?

This is the exact reason why copyleft licenses are important: you can reuse (A)GPL content, but if you do so the result must be given back to the community. If you're not going to pay anything, at least your product benefits everyone

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#297

Post by rakoo »

Brian_K_White wrote: post #136
jrm4 wrote: post #124

Again, it's just insane to me that we don't even much have a meaningful discussion of: "Hey, wait, literally everyone could have the entire library of Alexandria in their house for a couple hundred bucks per person. Like, all the knowledge ever. Maybe that should be considered the good default of things. At least one in every town that everyone could use, for free, forever, without restriction to ANY of the knowledge…

Insane in the abstract, but not exactly unfathomable. Who would make money off of that, and who else makes money off of it's absense?

Why should anyone make a profit ? Why is it important to guarantee individuals accumulating money belonging to others, instead of a common enrichment of everyone ?

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#298

Post by andrepd »

zasdffaa wrote: post #217
plmu wrote: post #210

Excellent. I hope more and more people start to see how absurd and evil the concept of "intellectual property" is. It should be totally rejected and any form of keeping useful information for yourself should be shunned and tabooized. In todays world, many have been programmed to believe that the would could not exits without such immoral restrictions, which is horrible.

I've just spent 2 years writing something which ain't got anything else like it. It was technically pretty difficult and needed a lot of background knowledge. Should I be disallowed to commercialise it? I partly get where you stand but if I was in a society that you seem to endorse my first question would be, other than for the love of doing it, why sink so much effort into a thing only to get nothing back. It almost…

Surely there is a middle ground between zero rights and early 1900s works coming into public domain in the 2050s.

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#299

Post by hansword »

geysersam wrote: post #268
randomNumber7 wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

gutenberg.org is dns blocked in germany. It's easy to get around this (when you know it), but some governments work actively against it....

Only a few works are actually illegal to distribute in Germany. Not the whole site. Project Gutenberg chose to block the whole site instead. Source: https://cand.pglaf.org/germany/index.html

The lawsuit has been settled. Gutenberg has been unblocked in Germany since late October. The site was completely blocked for three years, from 2018 on. Now, a total of 19 German language books are blocked, per the "terms of the settlement are confidential." Everything else works.

https://cand.pglaf.org/germany/index.html

Gutenberg was blocked in Italy in early 2020. I don't know if this block still persists.

https://www.balcanicaucaso.org/eng/Areas/Italy/Project-Guten...

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#300

Post by permo-w »

olkingcole wrote: post #176
Brian_K_White wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insane in the abstract, but not exactly unfathomable. Who would make money off of that, and who else makes money off of it's absense?

Imagine for a split second an idea of value that doesn't start and end with private profit

I get what you're saying by this, but I think OC is just being practical. This is the world we live in. It's shit and I hate it, but if you want something done, 9 times out of 10 you need to consider these questions
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