Progressive web apps suffer from an ergonomic issue where people have to read 2-3 tutorials to figure out how to put a site on their homescreen. If that hurdle vanished and was more intuitive and didn't require reading tutorials, PWAs would gain more traction. This is why people who are developing PWAs need to evangelize for better, more intuitive deployment of PWAs on popular mobile OSes like iOS and Android.
PWA also suffers in the enterprise space. It took me a solid week to figure out how to publish a PWA home screen icon using Azure InTune MDM for iOS devices. Being required to build custom apple XML documents to get this to work seems a bit ridiculous. That said, if you do have a need for this, it does work pretty well - assuming you can figure it out.
The web is not poor man’s native (2015)
111–120 of 123 posts
Re: The web is not poor man’s native (2015)
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
This doesn't explain why PWAs are still a rarity on Android though. You'd think that the ability to target both desktop (web) and Android (web/PWA) would've attracted more developer interest. I can't really comment on other companies, but my company is currently moving our product from MVP to a more mature project. When comparing various options (PWAs/web, Flutter, React, Native), PWAs/web was immediately discarded a…
> This doesn't explain why PWAs are still a rarity on Android though. You'd think that the ability to target both desktop (web) and Android (web/PWA) would've attracted more developer interest. I can only guess, PWAs are like the hidden nugget of gold that devs poop on because it doesn't fit their preferred tools or experience or something. The other reason that comes to mind is it is much easier to sneak in dark pat…
PWAs also fit in a niche that is difficult for most organizations to digest. It's fundamentally front end tech, but service workers are non-trivial and also are decidedly outside of the typical front end dev's experience. They resemble backend, but the life cycle is somewhat complex and difficult.
Out of the box frameworks can provide basic service workers, but that doesn't make a PWA really shine.
It's a powerful but unusual tool that's slotted into a strange place. They are rarely used even though they can significantly improve user experience without going full PWA.
Been working in back end and front end for years. The number of front end devs I've met in the wild who understand service workers, their use cases, and how to build one, I can count on one hand.
Re: The web is not poor man’s native (2015)
#113It is in almost all the ways I care about. Title doth protest too much. It smacks of wanting to have your cake and eat it too. Hooray, no installs and no files. We’ve been hearing the evangelism for 25 years. Keep patting yourselves on the back for the next hundred - maybe WebAssembly will have achieved something by then. You dropped the ball on the rest of UX, performance, and especially the developer experience. Yo…
Re: The web is not poor man’s native (2015)
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The web won. I don't think so. Either way the statements are rife with soft terminology, but I'll use raw traffic as my metric for dominance in the functional space. https://www.perficient.com/insights/research-hub/mobile-vs-d... . The majority of traffic is mobile and apps still rule that platform due to both a superior experience and better interfaces. The trend is clear and ongoing, so I'm not sure why people th…
> The majority of traffic is mobile and apps still rule that platform due to both a superior experience and better interfaces. There is no evidence of your second claim in the link. Only that mobile, as a platform, is more popular than desktop. Nothing about "native apps" being the preferred way to interact with the platform. This is an oft proffered point with no solid backing. Rather the opposite. Users rarely, if…
> Users rarely, if ever, install apps
My local car wash now has an app and my wife promptly installed it, because of some vague rewards tracking.
The vast majority of mobile usage is through apps. That's a fact. This is primarily because of the low bar to adoption (click a link from a QR code/click an icon) paired with the expectation that the experience will be better than a website. If the previous website experience was bad, it's almost an instant conversion (hence the prompts to "install the app" before the user might find the web UI too problematic).
Mobile users prefer apps (and probably trust them more) than the browser, on a mobile platform. You can say it's baseless supposition, but that's ignoring the existing evidence that companies have done (and continue to do) over the last decade. Find any company or data that contradicts that and a lot of people would be interested to see it, because nobody has for almost a decade. I can't be sure why you think that someone would consider the web to have a better experience/UI, but it doesn't matter.
Re: The web is not poor man’s native (2015)
#115This article is all over the place. The debate is over. The web won. You can see that by the way popular websites will try and force you to install their apps. That’s because their web experience is perfectly competent to scratch the users itch. They are forced to artificially cripple their mobile web experience to drive app installs. There is a strong niche left to native. I’m thinking of things like creative tools.…
> The web won. I don't think so. Either way the statements are rife with soft terminology, but I'll use raw traffic as my metric for dominance in the functional space. https://www.perficient.com/insights/research-hub/mobile-vs-d... . The majority of traffic is mobile and apps still rule that platform due to both a superior experience and better interfaces. The trend is clear and ongoing, so I'm not sure why people th…
Re: The web is not poor man’s native (2015)
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The web won. I don't think so. Either way the statements are rife with soft terminology, but I'll use raw traffic as my metric for dominance in the functional space. https://www.perficient.com/insights/research-hub/mobile-vs-d... . The majority of traffic is mobile and apps still rule that platform due to both a superior experience and better interfaces. The trend is clear and ongoing, so I'm not sure why people th…
How much app traffic by data volume is video and audio? There are some natural divisions I'd make generally to Web activity: - Document-oriented content: mostly-static text and images. This is the domain of the web browser. - Multimedia: audio and visual. Here I vastly prefer an application which can natively manage, organise, queue, and filter content. I do make heavy use of a podcasting app, and occasionally listen…
What are those reasons? It seems to me that browsers are perfect for shopping as shopping is essentially browsing a product catalog. It's all basically document oriented content, static text and images, some short videos.
Sharing links is absolutely critical for shopping. Leaving product pages open for later is how many people research what they may want to buy. Product pages need to be indexed by search engines and be clickable by everyone, including on desktop.
All data lives on the server. There's little interactivity and no content creation. Offline use is rather pointless because the product database is on the server. There's no useful background activity. Notifications from shopping apps are mostly spam. Access to low level device functionality is neither necessary nor desirable.
There are far more shops than anyone wants apps. Desktop remains an important platform for shopping. So there needs to be a fully featured website anyway.
>- Applications
I think for applications it depends on where the data lives and whether desktop is an important platform. That's why essentially all business apps are web first unless their purpose is content creation and complex editing.
The real limitation of web apps is local data. There's no way for a web browser to reliably store data locally. Even though it sometimes looks as if you could use various forms of local data in a browser, on closer look it always turns out to be fragile, unreliable and only really useful as a cache.
Re: The web is not poor man’s native (2015)
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The web won. I don't think so. Either way the statements are rife with soft terminology, but I'll use raw traffic as my metric for dominance in the functional space. https://www.perficient.com/insights/research-hub/mobile-vs-d... . The majority of traffic is mobile and apps still rule that platform due to both a superior experience and better interfaces. The trend is clear and ongoing, so I'm not sure why people th…
Personally, I'm wondering if the 'mobile first' stuff will reverse in 10-20 years when Millennials and GenZ start having eye trouble. I despise trying to do anything on a cellphone screen. They're just too small. A 12" tablet is about the smallest I can comfortably use.
Re: The web is not poor man’s native (2015)
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
~90% of the average site’s mobile traffic, as a rule, comes from in-app browsers. Mobile users, as a rule, rarely open an internet browser, they are redirected there. It’s become a glorified zen-mode type feature for articles or indie web stores at this point for a substantial part of the population, especially young people, at least on iOS. This is a huge reason why “Open this in our app!1!” is a thing as well. The…
>This is a huge reason why “Open this in our app!1!” is a thing as well. The alternative isn’t browsing a mobile site through Safari, it’s using whatever social media app led you there in the first place. Yes. The popularity of Instagram and Pinterest for shopping is a direct reflection of how relatively hostile the web is from a UX perspective. I often find myself using Pinterest, rather than the web, to browse reta…
Re: The web is not poor man’s native (2015)
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The majority of traffic is mobile and apps still rule that platform due to both a superior experience and better interfaces. There is no evidence of your second claim in the link. Only that mobile, as a platform, is more popular than desktop. Nothing about "native apps" being the preferred way to interact with the platform. This is an oft proffered point with no solid backing. Rather the opposite. Users rarely, if…
You're subtly conflating "native app" vs "app" by using slightly different terminology. For the purposes of being exact, I'll assume you mean "app" - regardless if it's a hybrid with a webview or pure native apis. > Users rarely, if ever, install apps My local car wash now has an app and my wife promptly installed it, because of some vague rewards tracking. The vast majority of mobile usage is through apps. That's a…
It's not a conflation, it's intentional because it is what the parent poster claimed. I agree that there is more to it.
> My local car wash now has an app and my wife promptly installed it, because of some vague rewards tracking.
Your wife's anecdote doesn't match industry trends
https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/25/majority-of-u-s-consumers-...
I can also match with anecdotes of users intentionally avoiding the app in favor of the mobile site for linked in, Reddit, etc, despite the constant intentionally of crippling the mobile web experience simply because the app is so invasive. Can I have access to your contacts for no good reason? Btw, we also snoop your clipboard. Basically, I want to take over your phone so you can see a message...
App store conversion rates are low. If you do get it installed many users only use it once. Most people just won't pay for apps, various reasons but the race to the bottom and feeding off user data and eyeballs has pretty much had a full cycle now.
If you are a company trying to get off the ground with a software product these are tough trends to fight.
Re: The web is not poor man’s native (2015)
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
How much app traffic by data volume is video and audio? There are some natural divisions I'd make generally to Web activity: - Document-oriented content: mostly-static text and images. This is the domain of the web browser. - Multimedia: audio and visual. Here I vastly prefer an application which can natively manage, organise, queue, and filter content. I do make heavy use of a podcasting app, and occasionally listen…
>- Commerce. Shopping really should be divorced from the browser for far too many reasons. What are those reasons? It seems to me that browsers are perfect for shopping as shopping is essentially browsing a product catalog. It's all basically document oriented content, static text and images, some short videos. Sharing links is absolutely critical for shopping. Leaving product pages open for later is how many people…
1. Reading is not transactional or remunerative in most cases. There are exceptions (subscription-based content). Those might still be supported without going full-blown shopping, though in general I'd prefer alternate monetisation mechanisms.
2. Shopping involves payment methods and creates tremendous privacy concerns. Both of those are problematic in a generalised browser, to the extent that commerce sites are increasingly limiting which browsers they function with, which is to say, commerce is not a generalised Web capability. Payments functions could be removed from my generalised browser. The commerce-oriented app would have specific attention paid to security and privacy measures.
2a. My uparmoured Web browser using auto-deleting cookies, uMatrix, uBlock Origin, Ghostry, and other features to fight against surveillance and general Web annoyances plays poorly with most shopping sites as is. This means I've got to specifically remove armour to use such sites. This becomes more complicated when having to support others, at work or home, similarly.
2b. Information leakage between non-commercial browsing and commerce-based activity is a major concern and increasing threat. App-separation would provide a further firewall between the two.
3. A hypertext commerce platform could be URI based much as the present Web is. There are non-HTML URIs (ftp:// mail:// news:// doi:// ...). A "shop://" or "httpc://" transport (HTTP Commerce) would clearly distinguish shopping from other Web traffic and invoke the shopping application itself.
4. A possible risk would be that a large and well-resourced commerce provider might decide on delivering its own commerce app, or capture development of that app in much the same way as, hypothetically, a major Internet advertising entity might conceivably optimse a dominant Web browser as an advertising-delivery mechanism. These cases would have to be regulated by a conscientious, empowered, and principled competitions / anti-trust agency.
5. A standardised and capabilities-limited commerce application should reduce the use of dark patterns, or at least make them more difficult and apparent when employed.
Specification of a commerce-oriented application should reflect interests and concerns of vendors, shoppers, competition regulators, finance and payment processors, and advocates for groups of concern (the elderly, disabled, minorities, unbanked, etc.). The limited focus would make this far more tractable than for generalised Web browsers.