Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards • Hacker News Board

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#231

Post by yunohn » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 7:39 PM UTC

puranjay wrote: post #227

yunohn wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> BTC is exactly what it describes, nothing more, nothing less. And that is what exactly - A store of value, a 10^n investment, a medium of exchange, a ledger, etc?

That’s for you to decide. Its properties aren’t hidden. You get the rules handed to you upfront and the rules are always adhered to - BTC inflation will always be what the whitepaper describes. Think of it like poker. People lose money playing poker too. Is poker a scam? Nope. You might call it unethical or gambling, but unless a player is cheating, its not a scam. And any participant willingly agreed to the rules be…

So it’s a game, like poker? Not the kind of concepts I mentioned earlier? Because poker is /none/ of those.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#232

Post by tim333 » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 8:38 PM UTC

spyder wrote: post #167

ww520 wrote: post #103

There's a myth that Voyager is FDIC insured. It's pure marketing. Voyager has an omnibus account with the Metropolitan Commercial Bank where Voyager's customers deposit their money. Voyager acts as the money manager of the omnibus account and has absolute control over the money. Metropolitan is a member of FDIC and is FDIC insured. In the case of the Metropolitan bank failing, the FDIC insurance kicks in to cover any…

Hm.. interesting. In their medium article linked below they say the funds are safe even in case of the failure of the company not just their bank partner, but on their website in the same text the "company failure" is not there. (and even just saying "company" in the article is a little vague because they don't say which company): "Through our strategic relationships with our banking partners, all customers’ USD held…

This article (https://amycastor.com/2022/07/02/who-had-voyager-digital-nex...) says they'd convert any USD you sent them to USDC which are not insured.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#233

Post by tim333 » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 8:50 PM UTC

bastawhiz wrote: post #197

323 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever considered for a nano-second the alternative that they actually might have the reserves to back it all up?

Based on what evidence besides their word? There's been innumerable investigations and analyses which, while not 100% conclusive, raise mountains of evidence to the contrary. And they've already been caught lying with Bitfinex.

It's not really proven they have full reserves but it's not proven that they do not. It's all speculation really.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#234

Post by kragen » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 10:51 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #225

kragen wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Series I bonds are not available to the 95% of people that aren't US citizens, residents, or employees; they're nontransferable, and that's who the Treasury sells them to. See https://savingsbonds.gov/indiv/research/indepth/ibonds/res_i... . The government here also indexed a lot of things to inflation: pensions, certain bonds, etc. So when they couldn't pay their debts about 20 years ago they started falsifying the…

Sure, if the collapse of the American government is your concern, by all means invest in ammo and MREs.

That doesn't sound like a winning strategy.

First off, there's a big difference between a government collapsing and a government defaulting on its debt. And falsifying the inflation statistics doesn't even officially count as defaulting on debt.

Second, even if a government collapses, ammo and MREs are probably not a great investment. Did you find it useful to invest in ammo and MREs when the Burmese government collapsed? Probably not if you're not in Burma. Do you think Ukrainians in Mariupol who invested in ammo and MREs are the ones who are in good shape? How about the Iraqis who stocked up before the US invasion? No, the people who are in good shape there are the ones who left ahead of time.

I can tell you that Argentines who invested in ammo and MREs when we defaulted on our sovereign debt didn't end up any better off. Worse off in some cases, because their arsenals got them raided by the police. Some of them wrote entertaining heavily fictionalized blogs, but they didn't come out better off. People who left and people who organized their communities came out pretty okay.

So, let's forget about your adolescent Rambo fantasies and refocus on realistic hedges against systemic failure and hyperinflation. Because I can tell you from experience that living through it can suck pretty bad, but diversifying can help a lot.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#235

Post by vba616 » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 11:55 PM UTC

abakker wrote: post #177

woodruffw wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Far be it from me to defend Chase. I thought they might be a good example of a “more boring” bank in the sense that the GP meant. But I agree completely that, for many people, a small bank or credit union is a much better choice.

unless you want a website with a real set of useful features, a mobile app, and a cybersecurity audit dept. My grandmother uses a small local bank in Spokane, WA. its terrible to interact with them, and I constantly have to do so because their website is garbage and their mobile app is just a wrapper around their garbage website. OTOH, Bank of America has a good mobile app and informative website. I almost never need…

Most smaller businesses do not develop their own website and everything like it's 1996.

There are service providers that cater to the 99% that spare them from totally reinventing the wheel. There's a company headquartered near me, that you never heard of, that as I recall basically provides a white-label e-commerce platform to small and mid-size businesses.

A particularly fucked up website, I would bet is likely the product of a business that did have some in-house tech people years ago, and once they had something working, has prudently avoided redoing it from scratch.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#236

Post by hackingforfun » Sun, Jul 03, 2022, 12:56 AM UTC

lottin wrote: post #208

hackingforfun wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Direct ownership is the point though. Bitcoin allows direct ownership. Also, being the biggest, it can be considered the safest crypto.

Bitcoin has no concept of ownership. "Not your keys, not your coins" means exactly that. If you lose your car keys, you still own your car. This is not true of bitcoin.

No concept of ownership is a stretch. If you have the keys to a Bitcoin wallet, you own that Bitcoin wallet. If you lost physical cash or gold, it would be like losing your keys to a Bitcoin wallet. No one would replace your physical cash, gold, or Bitcoin, if you lost it. However, that doesn't mean that you don't own that physical cash, gold, or Bitcoin, at least while you have it in your possession.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#237

Post by abakker » Sun, Jul 03, 2022, 2:33 AM UTC

vba616 wrote: post #235

abakker wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unless you want a website with a real set of useful features, a mobile app, and a cybersecurity audit dept. My grandmother uses a small local bank in Spokane, WA. its terrible to interact with them, and I constantly have to do so because their website is garbage and their mobile app is just a wrapper around their garbage website. OTOH, Bank of America has a good mobile app and informative website. I almost never need…

Most smaller businesses do not develop their own website and everything like it's 1996. There are service providers that cater to the 99% that spare them from totally reinventing the wheel. There's a company headquartered near me, that you never heard of, that as I recall basically provides a white-label e-commerce platform to small and mid-size businesses. A particularly fucked up website, I would bet is likely the…

Oh yeah - the bank in a box package from those SPs is totally real. The basic kind of stuff that is uniform across banking kinda works. Its the stuff that is specific to a particular bank that just seems to never be implemented.

I have a piece of equipment that I financed through Bank of Colorado. They're not even that small a bank, but I have a different account to pay my loan every month than I have to see my balance on the loan...it is not great.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#238

Post by lottin » Sun, Jul 03, 2022, 7:31 AM UTC

hackingforfun wrote: post #236

lottin wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin has no concept of ownership. "Not your keys, not your coins" means exactly that. If you lose your car keys, you still own your car. This is not true of bitcoin.

No concept of ownership is a stretch. If you have the keys to a Bitcoin wallet, you own that Bitcoin wallet. If you lost physical cash or gold, it would be like losing your keys to a Bitcoin wallet. No one would replace your physical cash, gold, or Bitcoin, if you lost it. However, that doesn't mean that you don't own that physical cash, gold, or Bitcoin, at least while you have it in your possession.

Well, when it comes to bitcoins, you only own them as long as you have them in your possession—which means you don't own them, you only possess them. This is what I mean by no concept of ownership. The bitcoin network doesn't care who is the rightful owner of the bitcoins, it only cares about who has access to them.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#239

Post by concinds » Sun, Jul 03, 2022, 8:37 AM UTC

concinds wrote: post #216

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I invite you to look at the list of failed banks provided by the FDIC: https://www.fdic.gov/resources/resolutions/bank-failures/fai... Notice that the vast majority of these are smaller, local or regional banks.

This is a complete misunderstanding of the problem. I invite you to read Taleb (I'm not trying to sound like a fanboy; but his ideas are literally the utterly common-sense conclusions you'll reach if you study complexity science as applied to the financial system; i.e. they are objectively and necessarily true). I'll try to present a very simplified but rigorous case: 1. There's commercial banks (that take consumer/c…

Note: that Jim Rickards testimony link is the only good one I've found. He was given little time in committee, and had to essentially rush through his points (reducing entire paragraphs or sometimes entire pages to a sentence); so if you look at the 'official' House transcript you'll miss out most of his supporting arguments. Despite the "moam.info" site looking strange, I can confirm the submitted testimony is the original, authentic version.

This is the link to his verbal testimony, and you can see how shortened it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40Gkp0wJplU at 1:39:51

Taleb also testifies earlier in the same hearing.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#240

Post by School-Cotton » Sun, Jul 03, 2022, 1:17 PM UTC

Pasorrijer wrote: post #138

ansible wrote: post #4

I sometimes wonder if I'm the only one who just wants a bank to be a bank. I've been with the same relatively small regional bank for 30 years. I have a checking account, savings account and that's it. They've been stable this entire time, and I've never worried my money was going to disappear. As another sign of being an old man, I'm old enough to remember the phrase "as safe as money in the bank". You see, when I w…

This is a very American thing. As much as our Canadian banks gouge us, and lead to a lack of choice and almost monopolistic conditions... Our banking system is so ridiculously stable compared to the US it's not even funny. I look down south in confusion because I just don't understand how you manage in your system

Not sure what you mean. I’ve had the same account with Chase roughly since I became an adult (I’m 32 now). It seems to be perfectly stable and work fine.