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Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

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Re: Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

#22
Not really sure what "medidation" means. But the word "Dyan" is clearly defined. There are many types of "Dyans". But, all theory is useless without a Guru.

No amount of googling will not find a Guru. It is your intense desire to find a "Guru" will attract you towards the "Guru".

Re: Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

#24
It is easy to rule out meditation being a scam - most of the people who are willing to explain it aren't trying to charge money for the idea, nobody I know of is trying to sell paraphernalia and while there are books they are rare vs more generic self-help novels. The behaviour of practitioners doesn't make sense if they don't see a benefit.

Particularly when observing the Buddhist monks it is clear that by and large they practise what they preach. And a big component of that is meditating.

> ... And then following Occam’s razor - why need separate concept for that? ... Then again, aren’t we doing it anyway on a regular basis without introducing a word for it?

Every mind is unique. There might easily be people out there who naturally have such organised and orderly thoughts that meditation is useless to them. Or view the world in such an unusual way that the standard meditation practices are useless. But for most people, practising how to perceive the world is useful and so is actively focusing on the present.

There is a reason that meditation gets classed with the religious practices. There is a leap of faith at some level in believing that raw instinct alone will not lead people to perceive and respond to reality in a practised way.

Re: Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

#25
I think for me there was one example that quite nicely defined it as a load of bullshit:

Deep in Covid lock down we had a virtual off-site for a load of the management. They hired (hired!) some mindfulness expert to come and do a session over zoom. "Just think about all of your frustrations, all of your interruptions, all of those things that take away your attention and just let them evaporate away". 10 minutes later my toddler burst in the door and zoom-bombed the meeting (I had left my.mic unmuted) screaming something about Peppa pig. Turns out you can't mindfulness your way out of looking after your kids while trying to work.

TL;Dr - if you can just ignore your problems and frustrations and not have any consequences from doing so, then they are probably not real problems you need to worry about anyway

Re: Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

#26

> But then isn’t our whole life a sequence of meditations? Because we always focus on something (with sleep breaks). > Other gurus teach that meditation is “doing nothing”. Okay, but then again there’s nothing special about it, we all do it from time to time. This makes me wonder: have you ever felt overwhelmed by anxiety? Or experienced a panic attack? Or like you had so much stress that you couldn't eat, sleep or f…

Wow! This is the meaningful interrogation?

"Have you ever been overwhelmed?" "Experienced a panic attack?" "Blah blah lotsa stress?"

That is an advertisement. It's a way to sell something. It is no route to the truth.

And "honest question" is laughable. Those questions are leading.

Re: Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

#27
TLDR: Mindfulness is a way of focusing your attention, and taking a meta perspective on your thoughts and feelings. Mindfulness meditation is a tool to train this.

In the case of mindfulness,"mindfulness meditation" is just a tool to train being mindful. So basically you train being in a mindful state and cultivate the trait of mindfulness. When training mindfulness via meditation, we often use the breath as an anchor, because it is easy to focus on. You could also just focus on a pebble in front of you for example.

The concept of mindfulness has been known in eastern cultures with contemplative traditions and particularly in Buddhism for at least 2500 years. Fostering the ability to be mindful is sometimes also referred to as "the heart of Buddhist meditation".

The interest in the concept has only really sparked in the western world in the second half of the 20th century. During the 1960s and 1970s, the concept was introduced to the western world because of inter-cultural exchanges due to Buddhist monks being forced to leave Tibet and choosing to emigrate to western countries.

One of the early enthusiasts, who saw the potential of mindfulness in a medical context is Jon Kabat-Zinn. He initially studied mindfulness to find an alternative method in treating patients with the primary application being intended as a treatment for chronic pain disorders and stress in clinical populations

There is no general agreement on how to characterise mindfulness and no singular, clear definition of mindfulness but rather a plethora of constructs and operationalisations are used throughout the available research, which is why there is so much confusion around what it is.

Kabat-Zinn suggests mindfulness is "cultivating our ability to pay attention in the present moment as we suspend our judging, or at least, as we become aware of how much judging is usually going on within us", which is a widely used conceptualisation.

Another interesting model is the Two-Component Model by Bishop et al. 2004

According to Bishop, mindfulness consists of the components, Self- Regulation of Attention and Orientation to Experience and is a psychological process developed through practice. Bishop et al. hypothesise that mindfulness is more of a state than a trait, arguing it can only subsist, while an individual focuses their attention on the present.

Self-regulation of attention is described as a metacognitive skill. Bishop et al. postulate it is comprised of three elements:

- vigilance, which describes the ability to maintain attention over a more extended period, - attention switching, the ability to deliberately change the focus of attention, - and inhibition of elaborative processing, which is the ability to suppress cognitions.

Orientation of experience is described as a quality of awareness, in which a person is open, curious and non-judgemental towards what they are experiencing in the present moment.

Re: Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

#28
On one hand you have a potentially infinite variety of people and on the other you have a practice that works for just some of those people. And every practice that works for just some people, there are others taking advantage of that fact by saying, "Hey this works for everyone", being generally scammy to get people to sign up for something and make money. After all, capitalism justifies and awards that. But outside of economic motivation, on a much more personal level, the practice might actually work REALLY well for SOME people. And this applies to a lot of things.

When it comes to mindfulness, in my experience, for SOME people, their mind is so far overthinking things. About themselves, about the people around them, every possible factor in life is fair game really. This can end up causing anxiety and impulses to take control of actions. It's possible to have so much physical tension built up all around the body all the time that it feels shut down. In these cases, learning how to just close your eyes and let go of all those thoughts and all that tension... in your face, in your shoulders, around your hips... bringing your mind away from those thoughts and that tension by focusing on your slowwww breath, might just bring you to a place of comfort that you didn't realize was possible. In the end what all of this represents is stress. For someone who has stress and benefits from this practice, it's an actual battle to let go of the thoughts and tension. But if you get there, you have a whole new level of growth you can do from there. In that case, this practice feels like a super power. So you might want to let everyone know. But if none of this applies to you, it will probably look like a scam.

Re: Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

#29
It seems to me that, in this booked-up schedule society, mindfulness has become somewhat a guise and a convenient way to talk about the taboo of relaxation. It's a bit sad, because despite its characterization as something orthogonal to our stressed out goal seeking ways, it becomes precisely just another component in the same closed system of utility maximization. Obviously there are teachings which can take you very far, significantly altering your brain and whatnot, but I suspect for most people just taking a break doing nothing (without the bad conscience) would achieve the same thing.

Re: Ask HN: What exactly is a mindfulness meditation?

#30
post #26

> But then isn’t our whole life a sequence of meditations? Because we always focus on something (with sleep breaks). > Other gurus teach that meditation is “doing nothing”. Okay, but then again there’s nothing special about it, we all do it from time to time. This makes me wonder: have you ever felt overwhelmed by anxiety? Or experienced a panic attack? Or like you had so much stress that you couldn't eat, sleep or f…

Wow! This is the meaningful interrogation? "Have you ever been overwhelmed?" "Experienced a panic attack?" "Blah blah lotsa stress?" That is an advertisement. It's a way to sell something. It is no route to the truth. And "honest question" is laughable. Those questions are leading.

Well, I'm genuinely wondering if OP perhaps doesn't simply have the problem that meditation is supposed to help with.

Personally I haven't tried it, but I can see the value proposition, precisely because it sometimes can get rough with my anxieties, so whatever helps me stay on the present sounds interesting.

I wasn't trying to sell anything.

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