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ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

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Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#51

Post by kornhole »

b112 wrote: post #24
dtgriscom wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> astonishingly low gun crime in Europe, making the exercise a pointless waste of money Worse than that; if you listen long enough and carefully enough, you will hear gunshots. It's like over-used medical testing: look for a problem, find a problem, treat the problem, even if had you never looked the patient would generally be better off.

Rural Canada here, in an area with no real gun crime. There are people on their farms shooting things (rabid animals), or hunting in season. I guess you could only use these things in downtown of a city, otherwise so many false positives.. I can't even imagine in the US, land of 7 guns per person, plus of course the dogs are even armed...

I live in a neighborhood in SF bay inhabited by only billionaires and millionaires. I am always looking up and cataloging all the surveillance devices mounted when I am moving around. We have plenty of ALPR's and other cameras but no shotspotters anywhere near where I live. If I go into Richmond, Oakland, or other blacker parts of the bay, they are prevalent. I heard what sounded like gunshots last night but heard no sirens afterwards. I have more cataloging to do with Vespucci app on my phone or: https://mapcomplete.osm.be/surveillance.html https://sunders.uber.space/

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#52

Post by jakelazaroff »

millzlane wrote: post #26
TillE wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just replacing their anecdotes with your anecdotes. Why not look at actual data, which is likely to tell you that crime has plunged everywhere since the 80s.

Did it plunge though, or did people stop reporting, and police stop taking reports? Do we know why it plunged?

The murder rate has dropped by about half, and unless you think police are somehow managing to not report corpses, we can probably trust that as at least directionally accurate.

Two more trends to consider, over the same period of time: the funding for police has skyrocketed, and the murder clearance rate has plunged. So despite fewer murders occuring and record funding, the police are still solving less of them than at any point in recorded history.

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#53

Post by b112 »

indymike wrote: post #49
b112 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, I know you guys have to be shooting at anything and everything, just because you have a gun. In Canada, people on farms often buy guns just as a tool, not for cultural reasons, or pleasure, such as long guns, to shoot.... yes, rabid animals, or things preying on their livestock. It is a major use case, if you own a gun for rabid animals, and really don't get it out otherwise. I also have a chainsaw, and ne…

For most Americans... guns are used as a tool just like in rural Canada.

Maybe, but every time I bring it up, I find myself having to distinguish Canadian usage, from US gun usage. Many Americans seem to think the entire planet is Just Like Them, not realising that many countries don't have issues with guns, and don't have Us VS Them style politics either.

Frankly, the biggest problem we have with guns is smuggled handguns from the US. That is, illegal gun ownership.

Honestly, I think every rural gun owner should get behind gun control in the US. It's the nutjobs, those who snap, or shouldn't have guns (illegal ownership) which is the true problem.

Up here, you have to take a gun safety course to get a gun. It's not onerous, and it's taught by another gun owner, one who decided to set up shop and do so! If you can't pass that course (for example, don't point your gun at anyone -- ever!), you don't deserve a gun.

And it's mandated, and you plain and simple can't buy ammo, or a gun, unless you have a license. And you cannot get a license, if you have a violent past, and a variety of other things.

For example, get charged with a violent crime? Your license is immediately suspended, and you cannot have guns any more.

I guess I have a short fuse here, because your politics are infecting our politics, as many people barely understand the law, or that "there isn't here".

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#54

Post by selectodude »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #52
millzlane wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did it plunge though, or did people stop reporting, and police stop taking reports? Do we know why it plunged?

The murder rate has dropped by about half, and unless you think police are somehow managing to not report corpses, we can probably trust that as at least directionally accurate. Two more trends to consider, over the same period of time: the funding for police has skyrocketed, and the murder clearance rate has plunged. So despite fewer murders occuring and record funding, the police are still solving less of them than…

>and the murder clearance rate has plunged. So despite fewer murders occuring and record funding, the police are still solving less of them than at any point in recorded history.

Eh, there is no shortage of cops who have gone away for torture and planting evidence to attain those clearance rates. For better or worse, I prefer a low clearance rate than the 99+ percent clearance rate in say, Japan. At least we can be pretty damn sure the people going away for murder right now actually did it.

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#55

Post by remram »

ceejayoz wrote: post #10

We had a similar case of ShotSpotter faking shots for the cops in my city. https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2017/11/17/s... > On April 1, 2016, the ShotSpotter sensors picked up several audio bursts from a northwest Rochester neighborhood. Unable through its algorithms to detect a specific location, the system did not alert 911 or police. The system also thought the sounds to be the whirring blades of…

How is this admissible as evidence in court? Unknown proprietary processing commissioned and paid for by one of the parties?

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#56

Post by chitowneats »

TillE wrote: post #17
jbirer wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

That's just replacing their anecdotes with your anecdotes. Why not look at actual data, which is likely to tell you that crime has plunged everywhere since the 80s.

That's part of the story. What has happened to violent crime rates since June 2020 in the US? I'll leave that as a googling exercise but something tells me you already know and are hand-waving.

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#57

Post by jakelazaroff »

selectodude wrote: post #54
jakelazaroff wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The murder rate has dropped by about half, and unless you think police are somehow managing to not report corpses, we can probably trust that as at least directionally accurate. Two more trends to consider, over the same period of time: the funding for police has skyrocketed, and the murder clearance rate has plunged. So despite fewer murders occuring and record funding, the police are still solving less of them than…

>and the murder clearance rate has plunged. So despite fewer murders occuring and record funding, the police are still solving less of them than at any point in recorded history. Eh, there is no shortage of cops who have gone away for torture and planting evidence to attain those clearance rates. For better or worse, I prefer a low clearance rate than the 99+ percent clearance rate in say, Japan. At least we can be p…

I agree with you up until the part where we can be pretty sure the people going away for murder right now did it. This very thread is on an article about how, when a forensic gunshot analysis tool was found to be fabricating evidence, they sued for defamation instead of fixing it. Police still lie and plant evidence all the time, and our carceral system is set up to coerce those suspects into guilty pleas to avoid going to trial.

Here’s a Twitter thread with the clearance rate details, if you’re interested [1]. Another damning trend: since the 90s, the decrease in clearance rate has been driven disproportionately by failure to solve murders with Black victims.

[1] https://twitter.com/chrishnews/status/1542173173008957441

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#58

Post by Jolter »

remram wrote: post #55
ceejayoz wrote: post #10

We had a similar case of ShotSpotter faking shots for the cops in my city. https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2017/11/17/s... > On April 1, 2016, the ShotSpotter sensors picked up several audio bursts from a northwest Rochester neighborhood. Unable through its algorithms to detect a specific location, the system did not alert 911 or police. The system also thought the sounds to be the whirring blades of…

How is this admissible as evidence in court? Unknown proprietary processing commissioned and paid for by one of the parties?

According to the article, the evidence has sometimes been thrown out or rescinded in court.

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#59

Post by Jolter »

Auracle wrote: post #41
skeeter2020 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> There are people on their farms shooting things (rabid animals) I don't really care if "rural people" are using guns but to claim shooting rabid animals is a major use-case is wrong or initially misleading.

I’ve done it once and I witnessed my mom do it once. I’m sure it’s way, way less then 1% of the shots fired but it’s absolutely something that happens.

You guys actually have rabies over there? Scary.

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#60

Post by not2b »

chitowneats wrote: post #56
TillE wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just replacing their anecdotes with your anecdotes. Why not look at actual data, which is likely to tell you that crime has plunged everywhere since the 80s.

That's part of the story. What has happened to violent crime rates since June 2020 in the US? I'll leave that as a googling exercise but something tells me you already know and are hand-waving.

You are cherry-picking an endpoint. June 2020 was close to the height of Covid restrictions.

Climate change deniers pulled a similar trick, choosing 1998 as an endpoint because it was an unusually hot year.

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