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The Deported

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Re: The Deported

#121

Post by selimthegrim »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #120
selimthegrim wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See page 204, Mazower, The Greek Revolution, 1821 and the making of modern Europe . Panos Kolokotronis’ widow took up with Grivas which (among other things) set off fighting with the Rumeliotes (which the book details in other places, not sparing Grivas either) NB: I didn't mean that he turned aside from Tripolitsa, I meant I was leaving the subject aside.

You'll have to forgive me, but I don't have Mazower at hand. In any case, I don't know the episode you're referring to but the constant strife in the Greek ranks during the Revolution is well known. It doesn't change the fact that Kolokotronis dealt a serious blow to the might of the Empire at Dervenakia. It also doesn't change the ridiculousness of the expression "real men" used by the OP particularly in the context…

I'm not Turkish, but I should probably change that name if it makes people think I am.

Kolokotronis comes in for a bit more criticism on page 85 when a snotty remark about the Greek people is attributed to him, and later someone tells D. Ypsilantis to kill him, but he is nowhere near the worst figure in the book by a long shot.

Re: The Deported

#122

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

selimthegrim wrote: post #121
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll have to forgive me, but I don't have Mazower at hand. In any case, I don't know the episode you're referring to but the constant strife in the Greek ranks during the Revolution is well known. It doesn't change the fact that Kolokotronis dealt a serious blow to the might of the Empire at Dervenakia. It also doesn't change the ridiculousness of the expression "real men" used by the OP particularly in the context…

I'm not Turkish, but I should probably change that name if it makes people think I am. Kolokotronis comes in for a bit more criticism on page 85 when a snotty remark about the Greek people is attributed to him, and later someone tells D. Ypsilantis to kill him, but he is nowhere near the worst figure in the book by a long shot.

Oh! Sorry for assuming. Nothing wrong with being Turkish, just to be clear.

I think Kolokotronis is the one figure from the Revolution that gives everyone the warm fuzzies in Greece. I've been to Nafplio as a child and shown the cell he was in, and told that a big hole in the wall was were he was digging himself out (probably apocryphal). To me he's dear because one of my ancestors was one of his chieftains (Giorgos Karachalios, executed by the Ottomans in the siege of Mega Spilaion, skinned alive according to family lore) and because I read his autobiography also as a kid.

Like I say, we all have our heroes...

> NB: I didn't mean that he turned aside from Tripolitsa, I meant I was leaving the subject aside.

And thanks for that, because that one really hurts.

Re: The Deported

#123

Post by m00dy »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #116
m00dy wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>And Greeks, Bulgarians, Armenians and others were also brutally massacred, correct? Kardas, let me be frank: we can play this game forever and you're not going to convince anyone you're right, you'll just convince everyone you're dishonest. well, I'm not trying to convince anyone as I'm trying to make it clear that It is not making sense to be accused of something that we have never ever committed.

Never ever, except for all the times that everybody knows about like Constantinople, Chios, Psarra, Crete, Armenia, Pontiac Greece, Smyrna and the rest of Asia Minor etc etc etc. The Armenian genocide[a] was the systematic destruction of the Armenian people and identity in the Ottoman Empire during World War I. Spearheaded by the ruling Committee of Union and Progress (CUP), it was implemented primarily through the m…

I disagree.

Re: The Deported

#124

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

m00dy wrote: post #123
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never ever, except for all the times that everybody knows about like Constantinople, Chios, Psarra, Crete, Armenia, Pontiac Greece, Smyrna and the rest of Asia Minor etc etc etc. The Armenian genocide[a] was the systematic destruction of the Armenian people and identity in the Ottoman Empire during World War I. Spearheaded by the ruling Committee of Union and Progress (CUP), it was implemented primarily through the m…

I disagree.

Of course you do.

Re: The Deported

#129

Post by m00dy »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #128
m00dy wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it did not.

How about all the historical evidence that it did, then?

I don't think any historical evidence exists. People are talking about millions of people but I'm not sure you have ever seen one million people at one place.

Re: The Deported

#130

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

m00dy wrote: post #129
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about all the historical evidence that it did, then?

I don't think any historical evidence exists. People are talking about millions of people but I'm not sure you have ever seen one million people at one place.

There's plenty of historical evidence, some of it described in the links I posted above.
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