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Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

investvoyager.com

121–130 of 245 posts

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Fed runs stress tests all the time and currently the banks are preforming perfectly during them.

which means the tests are not stressing. That is a good thing as they test for conditions that previously resulted in crashes. But it could also be a bad thing if the banks adapted to formally pass tests while straining their business with schemes that are overlooked

We do know, at least from the last crisis, that so far the US stress tests have been effective at accurately gauging bank strength.

(This is in contrast to the ECB stress tests during the Euro crisis, where repeatedly banks that had passed a stress test ended up needing bailouts or falling over.)

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#122
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. To me it's like saying passwords are broken because most people choose "password123". Or like saying dollar bills are bad because they can rip. Safety rails should be made of course, but if you aren't even maintaining basic hygiene within a system then I'm sorry but that's on you. People are learning to use better passwords, and people learned long ago to keep their paper money in a wallet. The same will…

How much do you think is the fair value of 1 bitcoin?

I have no idea. Certainly more than the cost of a pizza. There are 21 million, and if split evenly among the world population each person would get ~0.002625.

It depends on a lot of factors; like how important it might become for people to avoid using fiat or government controlled digital currencies, or how deeply integrated it could become in daily life.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#123
post #28
post #23

Another one? Tether is looking stressed. In the last three months, a lot of Tether has been cashed out. Look at the chart for Market Cap -> Last 3 months.[1] From US$82 billion to US$66 billion. Today, US$200 million was cashed out. Every few days, their market cap drops suddenly. At this rate, in a few months we'll find out how much backing Tether really has, because it is being paid out. Stablecoins have two stable…

Tether's market cap dropping without a price drop is indication that they are liquid and able to handle (to date) almost $20 billion in withdrawal over a 1 month period. That is impressive and a sign of their robustness. They are passing a stress test so far. Their blog counters much of the FUD out there: https://tether.to/en/news/

The have had to unwind a double-digit percentage of their portfolio, in a down market, in a very short amount of time. The total net effect of doing so has been to collect something like 0.00001% net profit. That is simply not credible.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the keyword here is "cash". Other forms of assets, namely crypto, aren't protected by FDIC insurance.

I have a hard time imagining a jury coming to the conclusion that this phrasing (still on their site) isn't intentionally misleading.

USDC is supposedly USD backed, so a reasonable person would presume someone who advertises FDIC insurance of cash would assume the USDC underlying USD is backed by FDIC. Seems like pretty clear fraud to me if the USDC isn't actually FDIC insured. If they meant only some of the cash (non USDC backed) was insured they should have said that.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#125
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats meaningless unless it's an audited by a top 4 firm.

they have committed to being audited by a Top 12 accounting firm, which is laughable https://twitter.com/WatcherGuru/status/1538815060298063873

Their audit has been forthcoming for over 5 years at this point. I wouldn't hold my breath.

(Also note that attestation ≠ audit.)

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#126
post #4

I sometimes wonder if I'm the only one who just wants a bank to be a bank. I've been with the same relatively small regional bank for 30 years. I have a checking account, savings account and that's it. They've been stable this entire time, and I've never worried my money was going to disappear. As another sign of being an old man, I'm old enough to remember the phrase "as safe as money in the bank". You see, when I w…

> I sometimes wonder if I'm the only one who just wants a bank to be a bank.

1) One big issue is that there's a case of bad incentives that are growing even worse. As I see it, the big problem emerges when you really start to understand what inflation does to your savings and how inflation operates like a stealth tax, particularly on the poor/middle class who have less avenues to shield their wealth through property or other assets that might retain or expand their value in the long term. The paltry ~0.05% (not 5%, but a fraction of a percent) interest rate you might get from your savings account feels like somebody is pissing on your face when inflation is reportedly in high single digits, but probably higher. You end up being robbed of more purchasing power the more responsible you try and be and the more of a saver you are in a high inflation environment. Fix this systemic problem with inflation first. This is why a lot of people are searching out higher and higher returns, even with some risk. You're being robbed no matter what happens unless you beat out inflation.

2) I'm taking a guess here, but as you state you're a bit of an older man, you might be speaking from an advantageous perspective of growing up in an era where buying a home and relative economic success was comparatively easier to achieve. It's a little easier to play it extremely low risk, even if you're losing some money, if you've already achieved a satisfactory outcome in life with home ownership. For many complex reasons, the younger generations here who are taking bigger risks have a far harder time achieving the same level of relative success as the older generations have achieved.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#127
post #4

I sometimes wonder if I'm the only one who just wants a bank to be a bank. I've been with the same relatively small regional bank for 30 years. I have a checking account, savings account and that's it. They've been stable this entire time, and I've never worried my money was going to disappear. As another sign of being an old man, I'm old enough to remember the phrase "as safe as money in the bank". You see, when I w…

I invite you to look at the list of failed banks provided by the FDIC: https://www.fdic.gov/resources/resolutions/bank-failures/fai... Notice that the vast majority of these are smaller, local or regional banks.

Aren't there just more of them? When Bear and Lehman failed, each was a huge percentage of large banks, all at once.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#128
post #4

I sometimes wonder if I'm the only one who just wants a bank to be a bank. I've been with the same relatively small regional bank for 30 years. I have a checking account, savings account and that's it. They've been stable this entire time, and I've never worried my money was going to disappear. As another sign of being an old man, I'm old enough to remember the phrase "as safe as money in the bank". You see, when I w…

I get your point but was Voyager a bank? https://www.investvoyager.com/investorrelations/overview “ Voyager Digital Ltd. is a fast-growing, publicly traded cryptocurrency platform in the United States founded in 2018 to bring choice, transparency, and cost efficiency to the marketplace. ”

Never heard of them before but they talked about direct deposits and a debit card on the page linked above so if they aren't a bank they are acting a lot like one.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's the worst case - however in the real world the FDIC and the OTS (Office of Thrift Supervision) does their best to ensure nobody loses any amount of money regardless of their account balance. In the case of WaMu in 2008 for instance, the OTS took possession of the bank and sold it to JPMorgan Chase. They didn't draw on the deposit insurance fund and everyone stayed whole. [1] "According to FDIC spokeswoman…

That "No depositor has ever lost a penny of insured deposits since the FDIC was created in 1933" claim is in reference to just the insured part of the deposits (as in up to the limits). FDIC is required to go with the resolution that will cost the least to the fund. An acquirer offering to take on all Deposits rather than just insured deposits is typically not a big problem for the acquirer, and can save a surprising…

Yeah, Enloe is the case I referenced, I think it lost a total of $500K in uninsured funds.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#130
post #103

There's a myth that Voyager is FDIC insured. It's pure marketing. Voyager has an omnibus account with the Metropolitan Commercial Bank where Voyager's customers deposit their money. Voyager acts as the money manager of the omnibus account and has absolute control over the money. Metropolitan is a member of FDIC and is FDIC insured. In the case of the Metropolitan bank failing, the FDIC insurance kicks in to cover any…

What the hell? Is there no penalty for advertising as being FDIC insured when client deposits are not? Plain as day I checked their tweets and they made a statement about FDIC insurance and the next sentence was telling you to start your crypto investment.

IMO any non-FDIC entity advertising being FDIC insured is borderlining on fraudulent advertisement.
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