“The joy of sharing has been driven from me“ • Hacker News Board

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#231

Post by zozbot234 » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 11:08 PM UTC

adamrezich wrote: post #229

bena wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really feels like you're defending the backlash though. As if it was a foregone conclusion. But why? They've done this exact thing N times before, this is just the N+1 iteration of it. You also keep positing alternatives they could have done and claiming that those alternatives would have been better. But it's all based off of your conjecture. You claim it's self-evident, but it's only self-evident in the way that…

> They've done this exact thing N times before, this is just the N+1 iteration of it. I think what you might be missing is that "they" has been a different group of people each time since the original two games—this is the first Ron Gilbert Monkey Island game since LeChuck's Revenge. I believe Gilbert has also said that he's disregarding everything in Monkey Island "lore" that he wasn't around for the writing of. bec…

Except that the graphical style isn't even that dissimilar from MI1 and MI2 once you account for the obvious difference in resolution and detail. It's a lot less cartoonish than, e.g. Day of the Tentacle where Gilbert was also involved, that came out not long after MI2. So I'm really not getting what the complaints are about. MI1 and MI2 were never trying to look anywhere near photo-realistic, so what's the alternative those complainers have in mind?

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#232

Post by adamrezich » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 11:19 PM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #231

adamrezich wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They've done this exact thing N times before, this is just the N+1 iteration of it. I think what you might be missing is that "they" has been a different group of people each time since the original two games—this is the first Ron Gilbert Monkey Island game since LeChuck's Revenge. I believe Gilbert has also said that he's disregarding everything in Monkey Island "lore" that he wasn't around for the writing of. bec…

Except that the graphical style isn't even that dissimilar from MI1 and MI2 once you account for the obvious difference in resolution and detail. It's a lot less cartoonish than, e.g. Day of the Tentacle where Gilbert was also involved, that came out not long after MI2. So I'm really not getting what the complaints are about. MI1 and MI2 were never trying to look anywhere near photo-realistic, so what's the alternati…

fullscreen character closeups in the VGA release of the first game at least (never played the second one! keep meaning to) were most certainly more realistic-looking than anything else in the series: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_of_Monkey_Island#/m...

but again I agree that the new style is actually a neat compromise between the old cartoony pixel art character sprites and something totally different, without going down the full-cartoon-whismy route that the later titles and Remastered games took. part of the charm of the first game is how expressive the characters without being too over-the-top cartoony like DoTT or Sam & Max. the new style looks like it should be able to recapture this feeling quite well!

again, the complaints are stupid, but should have been very easy to expect, because pleasing everyone—especially when it comes to nostalgia—is basically impossible.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#233

Post by matheusmoreira » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 11:24 PM UTC

corrral wrote: post #202

jjav wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm convinced that junior high and high school, at least in the US, amount to mass child abuse. Like, structurally, that's just what they are, almost unavoidably without totally changing how they work. > Even decent school experiences are, by the standards of the adult world, crazy-bad. Why is that? What is different about US schools? I (nor my spouse) have any experience with US mid & high school but I hear things…

- ~8 hours in school per day, often in buildings with minimal natural lighting. During the Winter, this may mean almost no sunlight all day (no recess, like in elementary school). Wanna make people depressed and give them SAD that'll stick with them long after they're adults? Just do this to them for a few years. - Intense workload. We consider it bad when a job takes more than 8 hours a day from you. Schools routine…

Completely agree. Schools aren't built around what's best for people. They're a mass education system that aims to teach multiple tens if not hundreds or thousands of students all at once. To achieve that, they need all this prison-like organization to manage all those individuals. This also benefits parents who are out working during school hours. There are so many students they can't afford to know them personally and individually evaluate them, so they use these inhuman mass testing practices under artificial conditions. Applying those tests to the whole student body is too hard, so they do it infrequently which means mistakes have huge impact on evaluation which means nobody can afford to make and learn from mistakes.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#234

Post by zozbot234 » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 11:29 PM UTC

adamrezich wrote: post #232

zozbot234 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that the graphical style isn't even that dissimilar from MI1 and MI2 once you account for the obvious difference in resolution and detail. It's a lot less cartoonish than, e.g. Day of the Tentacle where Gilbert was also involved, that came out not long after MI2. So I'm really not getting what the complaints are about. MI1 and MI2 were never trying to look anywhere near photo-realistic, so what's the alternati…

fullscreen character closeups in the VGA release of the first game at least (never played the second one! keep meaning to) were most certainly more realistic-looking than anything else in the series: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_of_Monkey_Island#/m... but again I agree that the new style is actually a neat compromise between the old cartoony pixel art character sprites and something totally different, wit…

One might argue that you need realism in a character closeup more than anywhere else, to avoid falling into the uncanny valley. But even then, these are not trying to be actually photorealistic. They could be described as painting-like, not unlike so many other scenes in 1980s and early-1990s games.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#235

Post by LeoPanthera » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 11:46 PM UTC

zack7linux wrote: post #177

LeoPanthera wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Windows version should run just fine under Steam Proton.

All the special editions weren't even updated for Windows 11 WDDM 3.0, one nvidia driver update broke them even on windows. Not sure if they even run nowadays on latest windows versions. They also removed the ios/android versions from the app stores before the special edition releases. Your only option is ScummVM and that doesn't support the special editions. All of them are rated as broken on wine appdb. I would not…

Both Monkey 1 and 2 SE are currently listed as supported by Proton in the Steam Store.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#236

Post by saurik » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 12:15 AM UTC

I know this feeling. In one case, I have/had a project this is used by a ton of people--it is even still used by a number of people today--and I finally just didn't enjoy sharing it with anyone anymore so I stopped working on it in public or making any new releases of it... I have put an incredible amount of work into it since the last public release, and I am really proud of where it went, but I have almost no interest in showing that work to anyone else or ever doing another public release, even though I know a ton of people would enjoy it and potentially benefit from it... it just isn't fun anymore.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#237

Post by jerlam » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 12:22 AM UTC

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #47

chomp wrote: post #14

Gamers are the most entitled consumer group I've ever seen. It's astounding. Someone wants to create something, and there's just so much hate and negativity on something that people didn't even pay for. I've seen it on HN also. Someone creates a thing, and then people pour out of the woodwork to lump horrible criticism. No one is asking for blind praise for what they create, but surely there's a middle ground between…

Counterpoint: I used to feel the same way about the entitlement. Then I stopped and thought about how many "hours worked" the average game costs for a person on minimum wage. While the minimum wage has risen dramatically in my area, to at least $12/hr, with games costing upwards of $80 now, that's still almost 2 full days, after taxes. It's easy to forget when people on this board are probably all making at least low…

All games don't cost $80. The indie game being developed definitely isn't going to cost $80. I can't think of many games that cost $80 other than AAA titles on release week and exploitative "collector's edition" items.

If $80 is a significant purchase, then there are many, many ways to reduce the cost or mitigate the risk. You can wait for a sale, wait for the initial reviews to come in, wait for a friend to buy it and try it at their house, etc. The way you're phrasing it sounds like the buyer is forced at gunpoint to buy an $80 game every month, after being forced at gunpoint to buy a console that costs hundreds of dollars or a gaming PC that costs thousands.

If someone I knew purchased expensive items and was unhappy with them, yet continued to make the same poor purchases and was continually unhappy, I'm not sure the purchaser is blameless.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#238

Post by YeGoblynQueenne » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 12:23 AM UTC

atwood22 wrote: post #8

I don't understand the outrage at this art style. Granted, I've never played any of the Monkey Island games, and have no emotional attachment to the content. To me, the art style seems very similar to a Cartoon Network cartoon, and that may have broad appeal to kids today. Like I kind of understand why people are upset: this thing you loved 32 years ago is being vandalized in your eyes. However, you're really old now…

>> However, you're really old now, your prefrontal cortex should be fully developed, so get over it.

I guess there could be an argument against playing too many games as a kid hiding in there.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#239

Post by bsder » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 2:57 AM UTC

vessenes wrote: post #6

I don’t get the hate- I like the style of the new graphics, and I think they are a sensitive updating of what’s good about monkey island’s original graphical vibe. I guess I am the target nostalgia demographic though; 70s latchkey kid. I fully intend to play this with my kids and enjoy the shit out of it.

It's not that I don't like the graphic style--from looking at the trailer I don't like the style execution.

I think the style is "ugly", but that could work well--especially in a game about pirates.

The problem is that the backgrounds and animation look "cheap phone game". And that's not going to make people happy.

The worst part is that I suspect that this is intentional--and that's what is REALLY pissing both sides off. Ron Gilbert probably wants this to be playable on lower end tablets and phones since phone revenue generally dwarfs PC revenue--so getting called out on this is not going to go over well. By the same token, the rabid fanbase is PC centric and is looking at a game that sure looks like it has made significant compromises for phones--they're going to be more than a bit upset about that.

To top it off, Gilbert is used to getting nothing but positive reception and now is getting slammed. Furthermore, the project is too far along to actually do anything that might be able to mitigate the criticism. Whoops.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#240

Post by scotty79 » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 3:02 AM UTC

munificent wrote: post #127

chomp wrote: post #14

Gamers are the most entitled consumer group I've ever seen. It's astounding. Someone wants to create something, and there's just so much hate and negativity on something that people didn't even pay for. I've seen it on HN also. Someone creates a thing, and then people pour out of the woodwork to lump horrible criticism. No one is asking for blind praise for what they create, but surely there's a middle ground between…

This is one of the main reasons I was happy to leave the game industry after eight years of doing it. Working incredibly hard to build a product served to a group of people that are often hurtful emotionally stunted man-children is just a deeply demoralizing experience. Obviously, many gamers aren't like that. But a fucking whole lot of them are, and they are extremely vocal, and it doesn't take many of them to suck…

> he refers to many games as "entitlement simulators", which is a profound truth

When I started playing Heroes of the Storm (MOBA) I though... "This is stupid, why would I play a game where I'm loosing roughly half of the time regardless of what I do? I'm playing games to experience how winning feels not this bs."

Somehow I learned to enjoy HotS, but I still think that single player games that simulate the process of going from loosing, through learning and development to winning to getting stupidely overpowered are the essence of gaming. Initial losses are necessary, so I hate games that initially let you win for too long. But the last stage where you are actually winning nearly always is also very crucial for the full enjoyment.

I wouldn't say escaping from consequence is the point unless you mean consequences of real world that are punishing you hard for even trying to achieve something.