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Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

investvoyager.com

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Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#41

Post by ploppyploppy »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #35
Animats wrote: post #23

Another one? Tether is looking stressed. In the last three months, a lot of Tether has been cashed out. Look at the chart for Market Cap -> Last 3 months.[1] From US$82 billion to US$66 billion. Today, US$200 million was cashed out. Every few days, their market cap drops suddenly. At this rate, in a few months we'll find out how much backing Tether really has, because it is being paid out. Stablecoins have two stable…

They just keep launching coins in a desperate attempt to raise capital. They are launching a new coin pegged to the British pound.

This isn't "launching coins in a desperate attempt", it's providing stablecoins in the FIAT currency that the market would want - in this case one of the world's most popular currencies.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#42

Post by sdfhdhjdw3 »

Skunkleton wrote: post #38
barnbuilder wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once someone sends their bitcoin or "crypto" to a lending platform, they no longer own this asset. What they now have is an IOU for that asset that the platform may be unwilling or unable to fulfill in the future, as appears to be the case with Voyager and numerous others before it.

Yes, but setting aside direct ownership which is not a prerequisite for investing in any coin, how is bitcoin a better choice? It seems to me that is like saying, well you really should have invested in Exxon and you would be ok now.

Crypto is one of the biggest active victim-blaming communities.

"Not your wallet not your coin", or whatever they like saying, is just is just deflection from valid criticism that crypto is very easy to exploit without recourse.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#43

Post by smoe »

iancarroll wrote: post #32
smoe wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a marketing spin to lure customers into a false sense of security. From the fine print in the user agreement: "Cash in the Account is insured up to $250,000 per depositor by the FDIC in the event the Bank fails if specific insurance deposit requirements are met. FDIC insurance does not protect against the failure of Voyager or any Custodian (as defined below) or malfeasance by any Voyager or Custodian empl…

If FDIC insurance is applicable, though, that should mean your cash is being held in your name with the underlying bank. It is unlikely that Voyager would have any right to those assets upon bankruptcy or insolvency -- if they do (I am no expert), that would destroy the neobank model to some extent. > Voyager maintains an agreement with the Bank whereby the Bank provides all services associated with the movement of a…

I'm not an expert at all either, just mildly interested how this will play out. I don't have any money in it.

There is an ongoing discussion about it on the Voyager subreddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/Invest_Voyager/comments/vp8kdq/prep...

Some people there say they have called the FDIC, but the response they have gotten is that the insurance only kicks in if the Metropolitan Commercial Bank fails.

I have no idea what happens to the customer accounts at the bank in case of a Voyager bankruptcy. E.g. if they can be used to cover voyagers debt or have to be handed over to the customers.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#44

Post by prohobo »

Skunkleton wrote: post #38
barnbuilder wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once someone sends their bitcoin or "crypto" to a lending platform, they no longer own this asset. What they now have is an IOU for that asset that the platform may be unwilling or unable to fulfill in the future, as appears to be the case with Voyager and numerous others before it.

Yes, but setting aside direct ownership which is not a prerequisite for investing in any coin, how is bitcoin a better choice? It seems to me that is like saying, well you really should have invested in Exxon and you would be ok now.

My guess: from a speculative standpoint Bitcoin is finite and the only real competitor to fiat. There's also a large amount of sustained hype. It's unlikely to flatline unless something really major happens.

Blockchains like Ethereum are not (and aren't meant to be) alternatives to fiat. In fact, the best thing for ETH would be low price, since it's mostly used as gas. Altcoins are almost entirely vaporware until ETH tech matures and consumer services become feasible. Until then, any high valuation of either ETH or Altcoin is 100% Tulip Mania. I have no idea about any blockchains outside of Bitcoin or Ethereum.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#45

Post by hackingforfun »

Skunkleton wrote: post #38
barnbuilder wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once someone sends their bitcoin or "crypto" to a lending platform, they no longer own this asset. What they now have is an IOU for that asset that the platform may be unwilling or unable to fulfill in the future, as appears to be the case with Voyager and numerous others before it.

Yes, but setting aside direct ownership which is not a prerequisite for investing in any coin, how is bitcoin a better choice? It seems to me that is like saying, well you really should have invested in Exxon and you would be ok now.

Direct ownership is the point though. Bitcoin allows direct ownership. Also, being the biggest, it can be considered the safest crypto.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#46

Post by dragontamer »

sdfhdhjdw3 wrote: post #2

I guess everyone's strategy in the crypto space is put everything you have on bitcoin and hope it goes up. It's a really good strategy, when it works.

I wish it were that simple.

These folks bought GBTC, traded GBTC and staked it with others, exchanged it for USDC staked that and then used the money to buy more BTC.

No one offers 3% to 20% APY just holding BTC. They are trading that coin to everyone else in a shadow banking / speculation scheme and hoping for the best.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#47

Post by roywiggins »

marcell wrote: post #28
Animats wrote: post #23

Another one? Tether is looking stressed. In the last three months, a lot of Tether has been cashed out. Look at the chart for Market Cap -> Last 3 months.[1] From US$82 billion to US$66 billion. Today, US$200 million was cashed out. Every few days, their market cap drops suddenly. At this rate, in a few months we'll find out how much backing Tether really has, because it is being paid out. Stablecoins have two stable…

Tether's market cap dropping without a price drop is indication that they are liquid and able to handle (to date) almost $20 billion in withdrawal over a 1 month period. That is impressive and a sign of their robustness. They are passing a stress test so far. Their blog counters much of the FUD out there: https://tether.to/en/news/

It seems like it would be pretty binary. That is, withdrawals would be orderly... until they are suddenly not. It's not very good evidence for the state of their backing now. Maybe they've chewed through all their liquid assets and will explode tomorrow, maybe not.

That is, withdrawals wouldn't shake the Tether price at all until someone is told "no you can't withdraw today" and decides to sell their Tethers on the market at a discount instead of withdrawing at par.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#48

Post by caiomassan »

ansible wrote: post #4

I sometimes wonder if I'm the only one who just wants a bank to be a bank. I've been with the same relatively small regional bank for 30 years. I have a checking account, savings account and that's it. They've been stable this entire time, and I've never worried my money was going to disappear. As another sign of being an old man, I'm old enough to remember the phrase "as safe as money in the bank". You see, when I w…

i am not even 40 and got my money robbed from the bank by the government twice. depends where you live, a bank is not that good of a place to keep your savings.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#49

Post by barnbuilder »

ansible wrote: post #4

I sometimes wonder if I'm the only one who just wants a bank to be a bank. I've been with the same relatively small regional bank for 30 years. I have a checking account, savings account and that's it. They've been stable this entire time, and I've never worried my money was going to disappear. As another sign of being an old man, I'm old enough to remember the phrase "as safe as money in the bank". You see, when I w…

You may feel like your accounts are stable and nothing is disappearing but by CPI inflation calculations (https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm), any money you had in that account 30 years ago has lost half its buying power.

If you want to keep the money that you have worked for over the long term, your checking and savings account are not going to cut it.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#50

Post by woodruffw »

barnbuilder wrote: post #49
ansible wrote: post #4

I sometimes wonder if I'm the only one who just wants a bank to be a bank. I've been with the same relatively small regional bank for 30 years. I have a checking account, savings account and that's it. They've been stable this entire time, and I've never worried my money was going to disappear. As another sign of being an old man, I'm old enough to remember the phrase "as safe as money in the bank". You see, when I w…

You may feel like your accounts are stable and nothing is disappearing but by CPI inflation calculations ( https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm ), any money you had in that account 30 years ago has lost half its buying power. If you want to keep the money that you have worked for over the long term, your checking and savings account are not going to cut it.

I don't think the GP is saying that the don't do any investment whatsoever.
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