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Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

investvoyager.com

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Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#31

Post by koolba »

ValentineC wrote: post #13
armchairhacker wrote: post #12

I saw this on their site: > FDIC INSURED ON USD $250,000 > You USD is held by our banking partner, Metropolitan Commercial Bank, which is FDIC insured, so the cash you hold with Voyager is protected. So does that mean anyone with less than $250k is guaranteed their money? Is there any legal backing?

I think the keyword here is "cash". Other forms of assets, namely crypto, aren't protected by FDIC insurance.

I wonder if this is at all related to the recent move by Coinbase to merge USDC / USD balances.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#32

Post by iancarroll »

smoe wrote: post #26
armchairhacker wrote: post #12

I saw this on their site: > FDIC INSURED ON USD $250,000 > You USD is held by our banking partner, Metropolitan Commercial Bank, which is FDIC insured, so the cash you hold with Voyager is protected. So does that mean anyone with less than $250k is guaranteed their money? Is there any legal backing?

Seems like a marketing spin to lure customers into a false sense of security. From the fine print in the user agreement: "Cash in the Account is insured up to $250,000 per depositor by the FDIC in the event the Bank fails if specific insurance deposit requirements are met. FDIC insurance does not protect against the failure of Voyager or any Custodian (as defined below) or malfeasance by any Voyager or Custodian empl…

If FDIC insurance is applicable, though, that should mean your cash is being held in your name with the underlying bank. It is unlikely that Voyager would have any right to those assets upon bankruptcy or insolvency -- if they do (I am no expert), that would destroy the neobank model to some extent.

> Voyager maintains an agreement with the Bank whereby the Bank provides all services associated with the movement of and holding of USD in connection with the provision of each Account. Therefore, each Customer is a customer of the Bank.

The "omnibus account" phrasing is a little vague though, but if FDIC insurance is applicable, funds have to be separated to some extent.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#33

Post by Animats »

marcell wrote: post #28
Animats wrote: post #23

Another one? Tether is looking stressed. In the last three months, a lot of Tether has been cashed out. Look at the chart for Market Cap -> Last 3 months.[1] From US$82 billion to US$66 billion. Today, US$200 million was cashed out. Every few days, their market cap drops suddenly. At this rate, in a few months we'll find out how much backing Tether really has, because it is being paid out. Stablecoins have two stable…

Tether's market cap dropping without a price drop is indication that they are liquid and able to handle (to date) almost $20 billion in withdrawal over a 1 month period. That is impressive and a sign of their robustness. They are passing a stress test so far. Their blog counters much of the FUD out there: https://tether.to/en/news/

"The valuation of the assets of the Group have been based upon normal trading conditions and do not reflect an unexpected large-scale sale of assets, or the case of any key custodians or counterparties defaulting or experiencing substantial illiquidity, which may result in materially different or delayed realisable values. No provision for expected credit losses was identified by management at the financial reporting date."

Yesterday, Voyager could have said that.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#35

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

Animats wrote: post #23

Another one? Tether is looking stressed. In the last three months, a lot of Tether has been cashed out. Look at the chart for Market Cap -> Last 3 months.[1] From US$82 billion to US$66 billion. Today, US$200 million was cashed out. Every few days, their market cap drops suddenly. At this rate, in a few months we'll find out how much backing Tether really has, because it is being paid out. Stablecoins have two stable…

They just keep launching coins in a desperate attempt to raise capital. They are launching a new coin pegged to the British pound.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#36

Post by adrr »

alexjplant wrote: post #7
ansible wrote: post #4

I sometimes wonder if I'm the only one who just wants a bank to be a bank. I've been with the same relatively small regional bank for 30 years. I have a checking account, savings account and that's it. They've been stable this entire time, and I've never worried my money was going to disappear. As another sign of being an old man, I'm old enough to remember the phrase "as safe as money in the bank". You see, when I w…

Aren't retail and investment banking separate spaces? Aren't depository accounts insured to the tune of a quarter of a million dollars by the FDIC? Isn't Voyager a crypto exchange? I tend to keep my money in local credit unions as well, but I'm struggling to understand how this discussion is germane to Voyager's actions here. EDIT: See https://www.investvoyager.com/blog/voyager-is-now-fdic-insur...

They can be the same. Voyager looks like they have their sweep account as a brokered deposit with an FDIC insured bank. This similar to other investment firms. I think Etrade lets you have up to $1M for FDIC insurance spread across 4 banks but you have to set it otherwise it sits in a money market or equiv.

Good thing is that voyager shouldn't be able to touch money in the sweep accounts.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#38

Post by Skunkleton »

barnbuilder wrote: post #30
tomjakubowski wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's irresponsible about that compared to just parking it in BTC?

Once someone sends their bitcoin or "crypto" to a lending platform, they no longer own this asset. What they now have is an IOU for that asset that the platform may be unwilling or unable to fulfill in the future, as appears to be the case with Voyager and numerous others before it.

Yes, but setting aside direct ownership which is not a prerequisite for investing in any coin, how is bitcoin a better choice? It seems to me that is like saying, well you really should have invested in Exxon and you would be ok now.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#39

Post by adrr »

marcell wrote: post #28
Animats wrote: post #23

Another one? Tether is looking stressed. In the last three months, a lot of Tether has been cashed out. Look at the chart for Market Cap -> Last 3 months.[1] From US$82 billion to US$66 billion. Today, US$200 million was cashed out. Every few days, their market cap drops suddenly. At this rate, in a few months we'll find out how much backing Tether really has, because it is being paid out. Stablecoins have two stable…

Tether's market cap dropping without a price drop is indication that they are liquid and able to handle (to date) almost $20 billion in withdrawal over a 1 month period. That is impressive and a sign of their robustness. They are passing a stress test so far. Their blog counters much of the FUD out there: https://tether.to/en/news/

Whats the limit on withdraws before they have liquidity issues? Easiest way to make investors confident is due a full audit with a top 4 auditing firm.

Re: Voyager suspends trading, deposits, withdrawals, and loyalty rewards

#40

Post by ansible »

captainkrtek wrote: post #8
ansible wrote: post #4

I sometimes wonder if I'm the only one who just wants a bank to be a bank. I've been with the same relatively small regional bank for 30 years. I have a checking account, savings account and that's it. They've been stable this entire time, and I've never worried my money was going to disappear. As another sign of being an old man, I'm old enough to remember the phrase "as safe as money in the bank". You see, when I w…

Couldn’t agree more. Been banking with a not-for-profit credit union for over 15 years. Never been charged unreasonable fees, great customer service, solid and simple app/website. I don’t want banking to be “exciting”

> I don’t want banking to be “exciting”

Yes, exactly.

My bank makes money off of me every month, even though I have the "free" checking account. They offer an historically low interest rate on the savings account, and I know they're making money off that too.

But I'm OK with all that.

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