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Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

theguardian.com

331–340 of 430 posts

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#331

The Netherlands will be especially impacted by this. We refused actual legalization for many reasons, many of which will be invalidated by Germany decriminalizing. Our current stance on weed is so confusing that it's hard to explain to any foreigner, but strictly speaking weed isn't legal and not even decriminalized... But yes, Amsterdam is in The Netherlands.

I sincerely hope so because I get the pain a lot of Dutch people felt: Even as a liberal drug policy activist (formerly on EU level) I despised the smoking tourism: People not knowing their dose who will randomly fall in front of your bicycle or generally stumble across streets without being able to look left or right. I only fell in love with Amsterdam again after a drug policy meeting late January one year: Without hordes of stoned tourists Amsterdam was a really pleasant experience - even in coffeeshops that usually told you to "smoke quickly and fsck off!" one could sit quietly, chat with friends and instead of the "fsck off" the waiters come and ask whether one would like to have another coffee.

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, that is something you can say to an experienced marijuana user, but the casual dude who hasn't smoked weed since college and just wants to smoke a joint... that dude just wants to smoke a joint! There is no need for scales or precision to be involved. All that is needed is some low-to-moderate-potency weed, hopefully with some CBD content. "Use a good vaporizer or a cheap glass pipe." You do realize that a lot…

So... let them do it. Once. Let us hope they will learn after their uncomfortable high. That might actually deter them from weed. It did work for me. Is it not how both kids and adults learn? If they cannot learn from other people's experiences that is. It does not take a rocket scientists to use those devices, but if the average people is really that dumb, then we should seriously take control of their lives if we w…

Me: We should be able to choose the types and potencies of the substances we put in our bodies.

You: HELL NO

WTF, really?

Not that it matters, recreational stores solve this problem entirely.

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strongly agree. As the THC percentage has increased, so has my anxiety when I smoke it. If I go out of my way to find lower quality weed, I enjoy it much more.

Anecdote: I've never seen someone suffer anxiety from an Indica strain, but I have seen plenty of bad trips from Sativa strains. Medical is legal where I live, and I like both (and hybrids) depending on what I'm doing. In the evening, I would stick to Indicas and Indica-dominant hybrids. Since I work, and I never use while working, I use Sativas far less, but I like them for weekends - walks, chores, etc.. It's a bri…

I can't tell the difference between the types and have had anxiety with weed labeled as both. Individual strain and thc, cbd and other canibinoid percentages have a bigger effect then anything ime

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can still find lower THC cannabis at any dispensary. Most carry from 10 to 30%. Most also carry CBD flower and very low dose edibles. I also don’t understand this argument because you can just take 1 hit and be done. No one is forcing you to finish a whole joint. Should liquor be outlawed because it is stronger than beer?

It's really hard to dose "1 hit". It's not like a shot of liquor. And inexperienced users are not experts at hitting pipes or vapes or joints, so that "1 hit" becomes even trickier. And if you fuck up, whoops, now you're uncomfortably high for several hours! Better to have a much wider variety of potencies available, like we have with alcohol. Especially for the casual users who have been ignored by the market becaus…

To that second point, edibles are as easy to very specifically dose as your cooking process and ability to follow a recipe allow. Legalization makes it much easier for industrial kitchens with strict quality control to be involved. In the analogy to alcohol there's a huge quality control issue in moonshine, and huge benefits to the law abiding industrial distillers.

I've sometimes wondered if legalizing and/or regulating edibles and smoked products separately should be done with THC. No one expects alcohol and tobacco to follow the same rules. It could prevent some issues for casual users.

To be fair, in regions that have legalized it the dispensaries seem to have voluntarily organized around the idea naturally anyway: dispensaries I've been to generally are good at explaining the relative safety of edibles to potential casual users and edibles seem to make up a larger portion of their business in general.

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#335

I think the legalization of cannabis in Europe has a lot of potential. I just wish that we would take measures to avoid the ever increasing levels of THC dosage in weed to insane levels, like you see in the US or California specifically. I firmly believe that cannabis can do a lot of good, but the poison is in the dosage. It has been shown in the past that increasing THC while decreasing CBD leads to an increase in n…

Strongly agree. As the THC percentage has increased, so has my anxiety when I smoke it. If I go out of my way to find lower quality weed, I enjoy it much more.

I don't understand why this is a problem. You can adjust the amount. What am I missing?

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#336

I think the legalization of cannabis in Europe has a lot of potential. I just wish that we would take measures to avoid the ever increasing levels of THC dosage in weed to insane levels, like you see in the US or California specifically. I firmly believe that cannabis can do a lot of good, but the poison is in the dosage. It has been shown in the past that increasing THC while decreasing CBD leads to an increase in n…

One option would be to tax it based on the amount of thc. Get the rates right and you could make it more profitable to produce less potent stuff.

[deleted]

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#337
post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The feeling that I would be stuck like this forever - that I had lost my mind and entered some state of irreversible psychosis - persisted for at least an hour while I desperately tried to relax myself. Prototypical bad trip. Unless you are a mutant or were not inhaling at all you were certainly ingesting high amounts of THC and were getting higher while not subjectively realizing it. By the 4th hit you were far go…

But how does such a dramatic change happen when waiting twenty minutes between hits? My wife was also an objective observer of my behavior in between hits and noticed no changes between the first three. The experience after the fourth was extremely different - more than I think one hit could possibly provide. My understanding is that joints and one-hit vaporizers are the best option to "control" how much you are inge…

My understanding is that lungs are an extremely inefficient way to get chemicals other than oxygen into the bloodstream (by specialization of what the lungs are intended to do). Twenty minutes may not be enough time for your lungs. Anecdotally I've known people that don't get high until two hours after their first hit.

Personally, I prefer the efficiency of the stomach and digestion system myself. It seems much more reliable.

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#338

The Netherlands will be especially impacted by this. We refused actual legalization for many reasons, many of which will be invalidated by Germany decriminalizing. Our current stance on weed is so confusing that it's hard to explain to any foreigner, but strictly speaking weed isn't legal and not even decriminalized... But yes, Amsterdam is in The Netherlands.

This sounds like the confusing US laws. Cannabis is illegal (very illegal) nationally. But several states decided to stop prosecuting these crimes, and the states do most of the policing in the US - so it’s all but legal in many states.

I wish there was a legal standard whereby if the state stops prosecuting a law, the law automatically can be invalidated by a court. We have lots of things that are illegal that are only used by prosecutors when they want to throw the book at someone.

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#339
post #257

Personally can't wait for the equivalent of Appellation d'origine contrôlée for weed. "It's not Champagne Double Cork Kush unless it comes from the Champagne region." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appellation_d%27origine_contr%...

British Columbia should get in on that and have BC Bud protected.

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's not about that. It's that one of the reasons the Netherlands never legalized is that the rest of Europe didn't. So we were afraid that we'd become a place where international criminals come to produce massive amounts of weed legally to then export it illegally. When countries surrounding us start legalizing, we have no reason not to. Since growing weed is purely done by criminals right now, we're also afra…

> Since growing weed is purely done by criminals right now, we're also afraid to legalize because legal weed farms might get issues with criminal involvement or threat because the criminals lose a huge income source. If we don't legalize however when Germany does, we'll then get a bunch of trafficking from Germany to the Netherlands. Oregon legalized weed and this hasn't been a huge problem. But if people fear it is,…

I'm in Oregon as well. There have been many news stories in Southern Oregon about the large cartel operations that are bigger than before legalization, because now they more or less blend in with the legal growers. They also involved trafficked humans to work there with passports withheld. Some of the increase has been attributed to California's drought, so they're moving north to greener pastures, so to speak. The illegal growing is more than twice as much as licensed growing. Twice. I don't know how you can say there is no problem.

> The $2.78 billion in illegal marijuana found in Southern Oregon dwarfs the nearly $1.2 billion in legal marijuana sold at shops in the entire state in 2021.

> Behind the scenes, immigrant workers may face threats of violent retaliation against their relatives in Mexico if they complain about living and working conditions at illegal sites, or the withholding of wages.

> “The cartels will kill their family back in Mexico. They know there is a realistic likelihood that would happen,” Barden said.

https://www.mailtribune.com/top-stories/2022/01/22/pot-busts...

> “We’ve heard of the threat of harm to your family if you don’t go with us”, Daniel said. “And then they are transported up to the location. From what we are understanding, these workers are not paid until the end of the year when the shipment goes out and the money is brought in. There’s not like a weekly payroll going on here.”

> Sixteen other state and federal agencies joined the Josephine County Sheriff’s department in the raid, including the Department of Homeland Security. The operation included more than 1,300 acres of property as well as 200 workers.

> Officials found workers living in squalid conditions, which included sleeping on cardboard mats or inside tends. Workers denying that they had been trafficked, Daniel said. The Department of Homeland Security offered victim services to the workers, but all turned them down, according to Daniel. This could be for several reasons, including fear of their employers or immigration authorities.

https://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/2021/08/southern-oregon...

> Sergeant Cliff Barden, of the Oregon State Police Basin Interagency Narcotics Enforcement Team (BINET), said illegal grows in Klamath County are clearly linked to drug cartels. He said the cartel’s strategy in the area is to overwhelm local agencies and resources with the sheer volume of production, ensuring that much of the operation will go unnoticed and ultimate generating immense profits.

> “They are intentionally trying to overwhelm the system,” Barden said. “And that is why it is so difficult.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/clear-links-between-illega...

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